Aunt Ginny's Purple RL?

[RDUN]

I know Aunt Ginny's Purple is supposed to be Potato-Leafed (PL). I started 6 from seed purchased from a popular commercial source. Four of them are definitely PL but 2 are more RL. Here's 1 of each side by side:



So, what do I have with the 2 oddballs? I can only grow one plant of this variety, so I'll be planting one of the definite PL plants. I wish I could grow at least one of the RL plants to see what it turns into, but I don't have any space for experiments. (Actually, the whole tomato growing thing is still an experiment for me)

I've got several people that have never heard of heirlooms that I'm planning on giving my extra plants to, but I'm hesitant to give these to anyone.

Is this significant for this to occur or is it just likely to be from mixed seed?

[nctomatoman]

You have either a cross or mix up....if you have the space, give it a go...otherwise, into the compost heap!

[Tomstrees]

I'd try to squeeze them in if I could - the "what ifs" are the best part !!!

~ Tom

[Fusion_power]

The leaf shape of your plants is a dead giveaway that you grew from crossed seed and that those seed are heterozygous regular leaf crossed with potato leaf. If you grow out the regular leaf plants, and save seed, then grow those seed next year, they will segregate 1/4 potato leaf, 1/4 regular leaf homozygous, and 1/4 regular leaf heterozygous just like the leaf form you see now.

I would give the plants to someone if they want to try them. These are F1 hybrids which can be very productive. If you grow them out yourself, you might just find something worth stabilizing into a new variety! As noted above, I get a lot of fun out of growing a few of my crossed plants. Some of them are highly unusual and worth saving.

Fusion

[Tom Wagner]

RDUN's quote:

Aunt Ginny's Purple is supposed to be Potato-Leafed (PL). I started 6 from seed purchased from a popular commercial source. Four of them are definitely PL but 2 are more RL. Here's 1 of each side by side

Key words in bold:

Aunt Ginny's Purple
Large fruited, anther cone not tight around stigma/style. Female part of flower likely exposed to air/sun on account of incomplete protection, became precociously sticky, thus receptive to partial cross-pollination before it eventually selfed itself.

Popular commercial source
Happens all too often, so knowledge of pollen parent impossible to determine. You've got half of what you wanted, or worse; nothing of what you wanted.

Four of them are definitely PL but 2 are more RL
That's 33% outcrossing of 2 out of 6!! But not altogether surprising.

Here's 1 of each side by side
My experience on purposeful crossing of PL to RL and the reciprocal gives me good hunches when I see crosses and accidental crosses. The RL looks like it carries the potato leaf gene.


I'll be planting one of the definite PL plants
Good idea. Why grow the oddball when you don't know what it is exactly, and unless you are in the plant variety creation business..it is essentially worthless, irrespective of the fact that it may have hybrid vigor. So your friend should enjoy the tomatoes produced nonetheless.

I don't have any space for experiments
If you don't have space and are new to tomato growing ...why worry already? Leave it to people who want to worry themselves to death!

..is it just likely to be from mixed seed?
Assume it is so...or not. If you want to help the so-called popular seed source...write them...it may make them more meticulous in the future. Don't complain, just advise!!

Deal or no Deal? I would suggest no deal. Making X sign at my knees.

Tom Wagner

[RDUN]

Hetero...what???

Googling Heterozygous...

In a living organism, having two different alleles for a given trait. In homozygous organisms, by contrast, both chromosomes carry the same allele. In an outbreeding population an individual organism will generally be heterozygous for some genes but homozygous for others.

Googling Alleles...

An alternative form of a gene (one member of a pair) that is located at a specific position on a specific chromosome.

Googling chromosome...

Never mind... I think the part I understood was that I should stick the wierdos in the ground to see if I get yummy maters. Thanks, Fusion, for making me feel like my avatar. Doh!!!!

[Tom Wagner]

Fusion's quote:

The leaf shape of your plants is a dead giveaway that you grew from crossed seed and that those seed are heterozygous regular leaf crossed with potato leaf.

DJ,

I stepped away from my edit of my last message while watching Ghost Whisperer and then did a preview before submitting. Lo and behold I read that you came to the same independent conclusion about the dead giveaway. Good work!

Most folks don't cross their own tomatoes on purpose. They "find" crossed plants by some form of accident, and that is where the fun of F-2 populations come to play. I am a stickler when it comes to exact pedigree, but I forget that is where most folks don't have that luxury.

Heterozygous and other related terms are the comfortable latinized words that some of us feel secure with. The RF plant is a heterozygote seemingly masquerading as a homozygote. You wanted the homozygote, but if you save the seed from the RF, you are going to get a whole lot of heterozygotes along with a paucity of homozygotes. I still would give it the he-ho.('')

Tom Wagner

[Dr_Redwine]

I noticed this morning that I had both RL and PL for my Aunt Ginny's as well. Still deciding on what to do with the RL versions....

DrR

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Dr_Redwine

I noticed this morning that I had both RL and PL for my Aunt Ginny's as well. Still deciding on what to do with the RL versions....

DrR

Again, if you have the room to grow some of the RL's, just for fun, it could be interesting since upwards of maybe 95% of all heirloom varieties came from such natural crosses and had to be dehybridized to the OP state.

Your RL plants are hybrid plants so if you were interested in anything that grew from those plants you'd have to save seeds from fruits from those plants, now the F2 seeds, sow them the next year, select again for what you liked, and continue doing that until all seeds that you saved from the last selection all gave rise to that same last selection.

At that point you'd have a stable OP and could name it whatever you wanted to b'c it wouldn't be Aunt Ginny's Purple any more.

It can take from 3 to maybe 7-10 generations to get a stable OP from a naturally crossed hybrid, depending on the specific genes being selected for, and no, you don't have to know what those genes are, you just have to select at each generation the plant with fruits that you liked in the initial F2 growout.

[Gimme3]

Beautiful...Encouraging post...Carolyn...u put it in words...meaningful to anyone....the simplicity and basic instructions of how a new OP cv is born. Thanks...)))

[Dr_Redwine]

Carolyn:
My problem is space....or lack thereof. But you and others have got me starting to lean toward finding a home for the little fellow.

DrR

[Tomstrees]

I'm suprised that with a high prob. of cross with this variety many more haven't noticed the same > ?

I say again: GROW FOR IT !

~ Tom

[RDUN]

DrR: Check your private messages...re: comparing our seed sources.

[Dr_Redwine]

Got RDUN...check your PMs for my reply