Cherokee Purple Tempermental

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by bughunter99

CP is known for its taste, not its productivity.

Agree. But it is not a poor producer lik BW either.
Amongst nearly 30 varietie one of my CPs has been one of th 3 to flower first. Right now it has 4 flower/bud trusses and keeps pumping more at about 2ft height. I can anticipate that it is going to be one of the 5 earl producers too. It was planted out on 4/8/15
So no complaints here.

[carolyn137]

Tania's site was down for a bit this AM so I just went back and grabbed the link I wanted, which is:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...b=General_Info

Please look at seed availability, not updated for 2015 except for Tania herself, look at the # of 2014 vendors and that should give you some idea of how popular this variey is, which it wouldn't be if it were a poor producer, etc. And when I look in my 2015 SSE Yearbook I see folks listing it, all positive, from almost every US state and elsewhere.

Yes, blossom drop can be a real problem, and several reasons why that can occur, but none of them related to JUST CP.

Carolyn, who was one of the first to grow CP back in about 1992 after Craig L sent me seeds for it that he had been sent from J. D Green, and it's now known from some allele analyses that it is NOT a 100 yo old variety and I think I still have a link to that study in my faves.

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Tania's site was down for a bit this AM so I just went back and grabbed the link I wanted, which is:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...b=General_Info

Please look at seed availability, not updated for 2015 except for Tania herself, look at the # of 2014 vendors and that should give you some idea of how popular this variey is, which it wouldn't be if it were a poor producer, etc. And when I look in my 2015 SSE Yearbook I see folks listing it, all positive, from almost every US state and elsewhere.

Yes, blossom drop can be a real problem, and several reasons why that can occur, but none of them related to JUST CP.

Carolyn, who was one of the first to grow CP back in about 1992 after Craig L sent me seeds for it that he had been sent from J. D Green, and it's now known from some allele analyses that it is NOT a 100 yo old variety and I think I still have a link to that study in my faves.

So I guess you are saying the Cherokee Indians didn't grow this and busting my bubble.Not all bad news today.I thought my Prudens Purple had dropped all their blossoms and it did on one plant, but the other plant has 2 tomatoes.And Your Cuostralee is setting tomatoes fine but I have never seen anything quite like it.It looks like the blossoms are growing on a regular leaf stem.it looks like a regular leaf with blossoms on both plants.Kinda weird

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

So I guess you are saying the Cherokee Indians didn't grow this and busting my bubble.Not all bad news today.I thought my Prudens Purple had dropped all their blossoms and it did on one plant, but the other plant has 2 tomatoes.And Your Cuostralee is setting tomatoes fine but I have never seen anything quite like it.It looks like the blossoms are growing on a regular leaf stem.it looks like a regular leaf with blossoms on both plants.Kinda weird

What I'm saying is that it isn't a 100 year old variety as was told to Craig LeHoullier when J.D. Green sent him the seeds/

I am soooo ticked off about the following link b'c the allele designations that mulio ( Keith Mueller)posted are not there anymore and that's b/c almost every good link I had from GW is now different from the original, missing pictures and data, since Houzz bought out garden web b/c the latter was going bankrupt.

I'm going to link to it anyway, look at mulio's post in April and I know you'll find some of the other info very interesting as well.

From testing many so called black varieties for thes pecific alleles they had, I think there were 4 or 5 different ones, and Keith grouped them, it was very easy to see that CP wasNOT 100 yo.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...x-red-tomatoes

Carolyn

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

What I'm saying is that it isn't a 100 year old variety as was told to Craig LeHoullier when J.D. Green sent him the seeds/

I am soooo ticked off about the following link b'c the allele designations that mulio ( Keith Mueller)posted are not there anymore and that's b/c almost every good link I had from GW is now different from the original, missing pictures and data, since Houzz bought out garden web b/c the latter was going bankrupt.

I'm going to link to it anyway, look at mulio's post in April and I know you'll find some of the other info very interesting as well.

From testing many so called black varieties for thes pecific alleles they had, I think there were 4 or 5 different ones, and Keith grouped them, it was very easy to see that CP wasNOT 100 yo.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...x-red-tomatoes

Carolyn

I did a little research last nite.Here's what I found.Craig LeHoullier was sent seeds for what was to become Cherokee Purple in 1990.In 2000 or so you were sent seeds for Indian Stripe.I think a circumstantial case could be made(depending on timing) that if Clyde Burson called his Indian Stripe or whatever he called it before Cherokee Purple became known, then I think this story about the Native Americans growing it is believable.What are the odds that two different people with basically the same tomato in two different states that didn't know each other, one having a tomato called Indian Stripe and one saying his was grown by the Cherokee 100 years ago would both link this tomato to Native Americans?Of course if Clyde Burson named his tomato after he saw Cherokee Purple then forget the theory.I did read where his son said he had been calling it that for as long as he could remember.The only way to confirm would be to contact his son.I hope you are following this and don't think I'm crazy

Here is an article I found last nite someone representing the Smithsonian said it was possible

As for the Cherokee legend, Joe Brunetti, a horticulturalist with Smithsonian Gardens who manages the Victory Garden at the National Museum of American History, says it's quite conceivable that the Cherokees were growing tomatoes in Tennessee over 100 years ago.

Edit to say I know he didn't say black tomatoes

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...orite-tomatoes

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

I did a little research last nite.Here's what I found.Craig LeHoullier was sent seeds for what was to become Cherokee Purple in 1990.In 2000 or so you were sent seeds for Indian Stripe.I think a circumstantial case could be made(depending on timing) that if Clyde Burson called his Indian Stripe or whatever he called it before Cherokee Purple became known, then I think this story about the Native Americans growing it is believable.What are the odds that two different people with basically the same tomato in two different states that didn't know each other, one having a tomato called Indian Stripe and one saying his was grown by the Cherokee 100 years ago would both link this tomato to Native Americans?Of course if Clyde Burson named his tomato after he saw Cherokee Purple then forget the theory.I did read where his son said he had been calling it that for as long as he could remember.The only way to confirm would be to contact his son.I hope you are following this and don't think I'm crazy

Here is an article I found last nite someone representing the Smithsonian said it was possible

As for the Cherokee legend, Joe Brunetti, a horticulturalist with Smithsonian Gardens who manages the Victory Garden at the National Museum of American History, says it's quite conceivable that the Cherokees were growing tomatoes in Tennessee over 100 years ago.

Edit to say I know he didn't say black tomatoes

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...orite-tomatoes

It's just too much for me to deal with right now and all the links I need to find since I;m dealing with someone from Bucharest Romania and have lots of links to locate in my faves as well.

So a short summary story here,

You read what I said in that long link I put up that Craig tried to find more info about the seeds JD Green sent him as to origin and Green was unable to reach the woman who gave him seeds, so the exact origin on CP is not known.

Clyde Burson Sr knew nothing about CP but I had done lots of research on the trail of Tears as the cherokee were displaced from Fl and SC and NC, etc to Oklahoma, and there was more than ONE trail, they took different routes. They got sick and many died and many left and settled at different places and Arkansas was one of them where Burson Sr lived.

he knew nothing about CP and it was my friend Donna Nelson from TX who visited reatives near Strong, ARK, and got to know both Bursons, sr and jr. She sent me seeds and said that burson Sr called them Indian Stripe or Indian Zebra and to chose whichever name I wanted to use. I chose IndianStripe since at the time there were other varieties that had Zebra as part of a variety name as well and I was trying to avoid any possible confusion.

Subsequent to that another person contacted Burson, but Burson Sr had died and he interacted with Burson Jr, who found seeds in a freezer named Indian zebra. So now two names and the other person and his friends claimed that Indian Zebra was the correct name so I asked Donna to come to the site where this was going on and she confirmed that IS and IZ were the same and told me to chose either one.

Finally that person switched to using only IS but some of his followers still use IZ whch has led to many years of utter trouble and hard feelings.

As for me, I've had enough of all of it and so has he.

Were members of the Cherokee Nation growing tomatoes in TN 100 years ago? No way to confirm that for it could have been FL, GA, SC, NC or wherever that what became CP was from. And yes, I sent seeds of IS to craig and he confirmed it sure looked like CP with some subtle differences, which I had noted when I first SSE listed it and Tania notes that as well

IS was grown in isolation in Ark for many years and I and others know that subtle differences can occur and do occur which is why I called IS, and Iz, for that matter versions of CP.

I have no time to look for all the links right now of my research having to do with the migration of the Cherokee from the SE to Oklahoma so I do hope that the above will answer most of your questions.

You also read in that long thread about the possible escape from a southern U of varieties from the Phillipines and comments by many about that and none of that has been proved either, and that in the face of the known places where Cherokees dropped off the several migration routes to settle in various places, including Arkansas.

Carolyn, just noting that Craig first called CP Cherokee Brick Red;http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...Cherokee+Brick

[seaeagle]

Well it's no way to prove whether or not the Cherokee Nation grew this tomato, but after seeing what you wrote about Clyde Burson not knowing about about Cherokee Purple when he was calling a similar tomato Indian Stripe or Indian Zebra, I'm gonna put my faith in the fine people of Tennessee and trust that they got the story right.

[garden381]

as promised the cherokee from my last post.