Can I tank mix and spray? Copper + liquid BT

[G from NC]

Hi Folks and thanks for reading,

I want to tank mix and spray at once: Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide Concentrate and Safers Caterpillar Killer II on my tomatoes and chili pepper plants. Does anybody have experience with this?

I contacted Bonide and received this response:

Thank you for your email. Potentially, but anytime two products are mixed a jar test should be done first for potential compatibility issues. Below is a link on how to preform a jar test. Be aware that effectiveness is not guaranteed when products are mixed together, unless mixing the two is specifically mentioned on the label.
http://utahpests.usu.edu/htm/ If you decide not to mix please consider waiting 24 hours to apply the other product.

I also emailed Safers, but they have yet to respond.

Anybody ever try this mix? Thanks.

G

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by G from NC

Hi Folks and thanks for reading,

I want to tank mix and spray at once: Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide Concentrate and Safers Caterpillar Killer II on my tomatoes and chili pepper plants. Does anybody have experience with this?

I contacted Bonide and received this response:

Thank you for your email. Potentially, but anytime two products are mixed a jar test should be done first for potential compatibility issues. Below is a link on how to preform a jar test. Be aware that effectiveness is not guaranteed when products are mixed together, unless mixing the two is specifically mentioned on the label.
http://utahpests.usu.edu/htm/ If you decide not to mix please consider waiting 24 hours to apply the other product.


I also emailed Safers, but they have yet to respond.

Anybody ever try this mix? Thanks.

G

I do this exactly every 7-10 days during the season. I have found that even the weakest strength they recommend on the copper concentrate bottle is too strong and can stunt the new growth. I mix mine at half of the weakest strength, and it is plenty effective.
Copper spray is both fungicidal, and bactericidal, and BT is a bacterium, so you will want to mix and dilute your copper fully then add the BT after all filled, just before putting the top on. That way the dilute copper wont have time to kill the BT. I also put in 1/3 of a teaspoon of dish soap liquid per gallon to help the spray spread on the leaves, breaks the surface tension. I do this after the copper is fully diluted too, so there wont be a lot of suds in the sprayer. The 3 things are compatible and won't clog your sprayer, just rinse it out thoroughly, and pump some fresh water through at the end.
Caution about the copper spray, more isn't better, if you see blue on the leaves it is too strong, and will stunt the growth for about 3 weeks.

Sorry to be so detailed.

[G from NC]

Thanks. I really appreciate your help. I mixed up and sprayed this morning. 2 gallons almost covered everything. Now.....around 7 p.m. it looks like rain here.

By the way, do you have a brand preference for pesticide products? What works for you that is?

G

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by G from NC

Thanks. I really appreciate your help. I mixed up and sprayed this morning. 2 gallons almost covered everything. Now.....around 7 p.m. it looks like rain here.

By the way, do you have a brand preference for pesticide products? What works for you that is?

G

G, I use Southern Ag brand of liquid copper concentrate, because it is readily available at Home Depot, but I don't really have a preference. I think any brand of BT is just fine, Dipel, thurcide, Safer, doesn't matter. I try to stay away from Neem oils. Also, I try to keep within organic guidelines, but not to the point of being a fanatic!

[Gardeneer]

I would not mix chemicals. They might not be compatible and so chances are that they might react. I rotate between Daconil, Neem and copper.

Gardeneer.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I would not mix chemicals. They might not be compatible and so chances are that they might react. I rotate between Daconil, Neem and copper.

Gardeneer.

In general, I absolutely agree, and do not mix chemicals. In the case of copper with BT, I have been doing it for years with great success, and no reaction, other than killing of bacteria and fungi and caterpillars.
I learned the hard way NEVER to mix copper with Daconil. Huge mistake!

[b54red]

I may be wrong but it would seem that if the bt is added to the copper solution just before spraying and the copper doesn't kill the bt then the copper solution is probably too weak to kill almost any of the things you would be using it to prevent.

I also use the Southern Ag brand of copper because it is easy to find and easy to use. I usually use the minimum recommendation and have never had any leaf stunting with that strength but I did have some serious stunting on some plants when I used the maximum strength one time when gray mold was giving me fits. It did take about 3 weeks for the plants to recover. The good thing about the strong mix was it did get rid of some other disease problems without me having to use the bleach spray; but even at the max recommendation it wasn't strong enough to stop the gray mold.

Bill

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by b54red

I may be wrong but it would seem that if the bt is added to the copper solution just before spraying and the copper doesn't kill the bt then the copper solution is probably too weak to kill almost any of the things you would be using it to prevent.

I also use the Southern Ag brand of copper because it is easy to find and easy to use. I usually use the minimum recommendation and have never had any leaf stunting with that strength but I did have some serious stunting on some plants when I used the maximum strength one time when gray mold was giving me fits. It did take about 3 weeks for the plants to recover. The good thing about the strong mix was it did get rid of some other disease problems without me having to use the bleach spray; but even at the max recommendation it wasn't strong enough to stop the gray mold.

Bill

Wow, Bill, all I can say is you must get some serious grey mold there. It killed my grey mold easily at 1/2 of the weakest recommended. It works perfectly. I was religious about using it every7-10 days, and after a rainstorm, but our winter rainstorms usually last for an hour or less, as they are coming before a "cold" front, then it's dry for a few days. I suspect that my winter growing conditions are very different than what you all get in the summer, but I think it also helps to keep them on a regular preventive schedule. We do always have a constant fungal pressure here due to not really ever getting a cold winter. Bugs too.

[b54red]

I know I'm going to regret this as soon as I post it; I should be knocking on wood. So far this season has been relatively disease and pest free. I have lost a few tomatoes to worms and a bit of gray mold and early blight have been so far under control. TSWV has been the biggest culprit this season taking out quiet a few plants.

I guess the time of year that you deal with gray mold would be more like our fall season when it is less virulent than it is in the early summer months here. Gray mold usually gets on most of my black tomatoes in the fall but for some reason it is much easier to control then. I think it is mainly due to the somewhat lower humidity and sparse rainfall that is common in the fall.

With three days of heavy rain and oppressive humidity, blistering daytime temps and hot nights I expect to see much heavier disease and insect pressure. My plants are way too bushy and dense to avoid it. I have seriously fallen behind in my pruning. Part of the reason for getting so far behind is that the plants just looked so good I could not bear to aggressively prune them. With the lower humidity and lack of rain the past few weeks I allowed them to flourish. Now that our normal summer weather is here it will be a daunting task to get them back under control before disaster strikes.

Bill

[carolyn137]

Several years ago I wanted to mix Daconil and some foliar fish emulsion to spray on my tomato plants. But someone local said that wasn't a good idea, but couldn't tell me why so I called Ortho b/c the Daconil was from Ortho.

I was very impressed with the person I talked to who told me that it wasn't an incompatibility problem , rather, that the dilution info for Daconil was based on studies they had done to discover that X number of molecules were needed/gallon, to be effective.

Adding the fish emulsion stuff at a different dilution rate per the directions COULD cause some complexing of Daconil molecules with the ingredients in the fish stuff.

So from that point on I never mixed two products in my pump sprayer and it seems to me that the same explanation given to me for my mix might well apply to mixing any of two other products to be sprayed at the same time.

Carolyn

[digsdirt]

Complexing molecules (altering their binding rate and form) and so affecting the dispertion and effectiveness rate is a serious concern when mixing most any chemicals. Doing it sort of defeats the purpose of applying them as well as the $$ spent on them.

But if the uneven distribution and the decreased effectiveness of the applied chemical is outweighed by the convenience of mixing them in your opinion, fine. Personally I prefer to spend the extra effort and insure that both are able to do their job. Saves time and money in the long run.

Dave

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by digsdirt

Complexing molecules (altering their binding rate and form) and so affecting the dispertion and effectiveness rate is a serious concern when mixing most any chemicals. Doing it sort of defeats the purpose of applying them as well as the $$ spent on them.

But if the uneven distribution and the decreased effectiveness of the applied chemical is outweighed by the convenience of mixing them in your opinion, fine. Personally I prefer to spend the extra effort and insure that both are able to do their job. Saves time and money in the long run.

Dave

Dave, I am in agreement for individually spraying almost all the other things, but for copper spray mixed with BT, it works and is very effective. I have been doing it for 2 years, every 10 days or so.
I would never dream of mixing anything other though.