tomato seeds...the strange thing

Ed of Somis · February 2, 2016

Like many folks....my seeds are growing now. Probably 40 out of 50 cells have sprouted. It is strange to me (a relatively new seed-starter)...that some seeds spring up in 4 days, and others really drag their feet. All things seem to be equal (moisture, temps, etc). For some reason my two varieties (different seed co's) of Brandywine have done nothing in 10 days. Any theories on the above mysteries???

Sun City Linda · February 2, 2016

I've read it has to do with the age of the seed and I have had seed I saved in the past year pop up in a couple of days.

Gardeneer · February 2, 2016

Ed,
I have heard/read that tomato seeds can stay viable for decades if processed and stored properly.
Then, very old seeds will need more time to wake up and sometimes needs special pre sowing treatment. I think, but not sure, in those cases the seeds must have become rock hard/dry that it take very long time for the moisture to penetrate.
Gardeneer

ContainerTed · February 2, 2016

Now, the paradox lies in which seeds will produce the most fruit, the best tasting fruit, etc. Is it the one that jumps out of the mix? Or is it the one that takes a couple of weeks to finally pop up?

OOOOhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

We do get a lot of choices, don't we??

Tormato · February 2, 2016

Nothing strange there, to me.

With my seeds, sown very shallow, it's usually about 45% being up in 3 days, 45% in 4 days. Less than 1% in two days, and the rest are usually about 10-30 days (if I have the patience for those, and I don't do a discard/restart).

Ed of Somis · February 2, 2016

Interesting hypothesis above regarding age and hardness of seeds. It actually does make some sense to me. Regardless, my wife thinks I am a bit goofy to stand over my seeds and wait for them to pop. She doesn't get it....

peebee · February 2, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

Interesting hypothesis above regarding age and hardness of seeds. It actually does make some sense to me. Regardless, my wife thinks I am a bit goofy to stand over my seeds and wait for them to pop. She doesn't get it....

Ed, I've done something similar. I've always marveled at how tiny seedlings can change in a short time; a curled short stem in the morning can become a taller straight one with a leaf or two, later in the day. So the other day I decided to stand over and watch my seedlings to see if I could actually catch one growing before my eyes. Family members came in to ask me what I was doing, then went away shaking their heads and/or mumbling under their breath. After a full hour I gave up, but when I went back just a short while later, I saw that this one curled leaf had opened!

Now I'm convinced they all wait till I'm gone to do their growing.

Gardeneer · February 3, 2016

I usually soak seeds (in water + few drops of H2O2) for several hours. This can help to soften the shell efficiently. The amount of moisture in the soil surrounding the seed might not be quite enough for some old seeds.

Fusion_power · February 3, 2016

Hydrogen peroxide is one of the tricks that I learned is effective in waking up old seed, probably because pure oxygen is released and absorbed by the seed. Having a ready source of nitrogen is also important. I had excellent results soaking tomato seed in very strong tea made by brewing tea then adding a small amount of miracle grow and a bit of H2O2. The combination of tannic acid, nitrate ions, and oxygen is very effective.

frankcar1965 · February 3, 2016

Unless your MG is different from mine, there is no longer any free nitrate in MG. It is urea now. I guess it MIGHT cycle to nitrogen but I always thought it was the actual nitrate that was needed. I have used stump killer instead which is potassium nitrate.

MrBig46 · February 3, 2016

Please, what is miracle grow?
Vladimír

Gardeneer · February 3, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBig46

Please, what is miracle grow?
Vladimír

Vladimir, MG =Miracle Grow is a company and a fertilizer brand name in USA.
There is several kinds of them.
--one is in crystalized / solid water soluble form with 24-4-8 NPK composition (plus some secondary elements)
= There are also some in liquid form ( 12-4-6 )
Those are very popular among the general public gardeners.

Gardeneer

MrBig46 · February 3, 2016

Thank you. (Fertilizer with a high nitrogen content).
Vladimír

**carolyn137** · February 3, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

Like many folks....my seeds are growing now. Probably 40 out of 50 cells have sprouted. It is strange to me (a relatively new seed-starter)...that some seeds spring up in 4 days, and others really drag their feet. All things seem to be equal (moisture, temps, etc). For some reason my two varieties (different seed co's) of Brandywine have done nothing in 10 days. Any theories on the above mysteries???

For me it depends on which two seed companies.

Some will put on the pack packed for 2015, that doesn't tell you at all when the seeds were produced as to age.

Other companies will put on the pack, when they were packed and what the germination percentage was on a specific date.

Properly processed seeds can remain very viable up to maybe 5 yo if stored correctly, or in my case, stored just at ambient temps and humidity ,except for heart varieties which many of us have found are less viable than non hearts.

As for storage a search here will bring up MANY threads that address that question.

Carolyn

KarenO · February 3, 2016

I have had differences in germination time for fresh seed I save myself. Seeds are alive, but when they are dry in storage they are dormant. Some take longer to break their dormancy by a few days than othersand that's ok, that is all I think it is and in the end it doesn't matter, the plants all grow well once they are up.
Another factor is how deep they are planted. they send down the radicle first and so seed may have germinated and are growing but you can't see that until the seedling and cotyledons emerge.
In seeds planted in the traditional way, in growing medium, Your days to germination estimate are not necessarily the same as the days to be able to see the seedling emerge because the radicle comes first, under the soil possibly several days before the plant itself emerges.

Bottom line is fast is not better. Just make sure the early emergers don't suffer lack of light while waiting for the slowpokes.

KarenO

February 2, 2016	#1
Ed of Somis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Somis, Ca Posts: 649	tomato seeds...the strange thing Like many folks....my seeds are growing now. Probably 40 out of 50 cells have sprouted. It is strange to me (a relatively new seed-starter)...that some seeds spring up in 4 days, and others really drag their feet. All things seem to be equal (moisture, temps, etc). For some reason my two varieties (different seed co's) of Brandywine have done nothing in 10 days. Any theories on the above mysteries???

February 2, 2016	#4
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Now, the paradox lies in which seeds will produce the most fruit, the best tasting fruit, etc. Is it the one that jumps out of the mix? Or is it the one that takes a couple of weeks to finally pop up? OOOOhhhhhhhhh!!!!! We do get a lot of choices, don't we?? __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

February 2, 2016	#2
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	I've read it has to do with the age of the seed and I have had seed I saved in the past year pop up in a couple of days.

February 2, 2016	#3
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,919	Ed, I have heard/read that tomato seeds can stay viable for decades if processed and stored properly. Then, very old seeds will need more time to wake up and sometimes needs special pre sowing treatment. I think, but not sure, in those cases the seeds must have become rock hard/dry that it take very long time for the moisture to penetrate. Gardeneer

February 2, 2016	#5
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,971	Nothing strange there, to me. With my seeds, sown very shallow, it's usually about 45% being up in 3 days, 45% in 4 days. Less than 1% in two days, and the rest are usually about 10-30 days (if I have the patience for those, and I don't do a discard/restart).

February 3, 2016	#8
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,919	I usually soak seeds (in water + few drops of H2O2) for several hours. This can help to soften the shell efficiently. The amount of moisture in the soil surrounding the seed might not be quite enough for some old seeds.

February 3, 2016	#9
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Hydrogen peroxide is one of the tricks that I learned is effective in waking up old seed, probably because pure oxygen is released and absorbed by the seed. Having a ready source of nitrogen is also important. I had excellent results soaking tomato seed in very strong tea made by brewing tea then adding a small amount of miracle grow and a bit of H2O2. The combination of tannic acid, nitrate ions, and oxygen is very effective.

February 3, 2016	#10
frankcar1965 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NW Louisiana Posts: 89	Unless your MG is different from mine, there is no longer any free nitrate in MG. It is urea now. I guess it MIGHT cycle to nitrogen but I always thought it was the actual nitrate that was needed. I have used stump killer instead which is potassium nitrate.

February 3, 2016	#11
MrBig46 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Czech republic Posts: 2,541	Please, what is miracle grow? Vladimír

February 3, 2016	#15
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	I have had differences in germination time for fresh seed I save myself. Seeds are alive, but when they are dry in storage they are dormant. Some take longer to break their dormancy by a few days than othersand that's ok, that is all I think it is and in the end it doesn't matter, the plants all grow well once they are up. Another factor is how deep they are planted. they send down the radicle first and so seed may have germinated and are growing but you can't see that until the seedling and cotyledons emerge. In seeds planted in the traditional way, in growing medium, Your days to germination estimate are not necessarily the same as the days to be able to see the seedling emerge because the radicle comes first, under the soil possibly several days before the plant itself emerges. Bottom line is fast is not better. Just make sure the early emergers don't suffer lack of light while waiting for the slowpokes. KarenO