Leggy Prevention

christian1971 · June 18, 2016

Are low hanging grow lights really going to prevent leggy, spindly seedlings?
Im still debating whether to grow seedlings next year or go with plants again.
What light system would you recommend. I don't want to go cheap but not a $1000 system either. Just so scared to end up screwing up again and end up buying plants again. Talking around 15 plants. Sorry if this topic has been talked to death. It early in the am.

Bulldog · June 18, 2016

Read under the starting from seed, and there is a lot of info on grow lights.

garyc1234 · June 18, 2016

I'm probably in the minority but I don't think leggy seedlings matter too much. If you see your seedlings get too leggy, just pot up, covering most of the stem with potting mixture. If your container gets too large for grow lights, take your plants outside to harden. (Slowly harden to prevent sun and wind damage. Shady in an area protected from too much wind is good to start.). Good luck!

oakley · June 18, 2016

A basic seed starting "kit' with light on a stand, heat mat, trays and even soil start at well under a hundred dollars....and this is on the expensive hobby gardener sites.

I suggest you do basic research. Google 'seed starting 101' and read through at least a few dozen basic methods.

And read through postings here like mentioned.

Then research seed starting supplies and use google image.

A basic shelf unit at Ikea is 35 bucks. Shop lights at a building recycle surplus are 5-10 dollar.

This is 85 at greenhousemegastore...

oakley · June 18, 2016

Another tip and something i encourage, especially if you choose to try a light set-up...
No reason to wait until next season, a year from now. Start some now and learn from it. Seeds are cheap. Start 4-6 seed of just two or three varieties. Any ol' thing.
Take notes and start date etc.

And do ask for help and take pics with a question. Best to keep your 'adventure' all on one posting so those assisting can follow the progress.
Everyone here had their first seed starting year.

Once you start saving your own seeds, free.
If i only had room for 15 plants i would start a full tray of 36, two per cell. You may loose a few, a few may not germinate...more plants for experimenting and insurance.

ginger2778 · June 18, 2016

The simple answer is yes. Lighting makes a huge difference. From there, follow Oaklley's advice which is dead on. The biggest advantages of starting from seed is you get to grow what you want, second biggest is no growth inhibitor hormones or additives like the big box stores add to keep growth slow for shelf space.
Good luck , it's really pretty easy.

oakley · June 18, 2016

Here is a very good seed starting 101 i sent to a friend of mine and have saved in a bookmark...
link, http://www.theunconventionaltomato.com/guides/starting-from-seed/

(not sure if i did that correctly)

sjamesNorway · June 18, 2016

As others have stated, adequate lighting is of utmost importance. I use 58W/865 shop lighting, which has a color temperature close to daylight at 6500 K.

I also use "the cold treatment" as described here by amideutch:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ent#post154107

It's very important to be careful with watering, as cautioned by Fusion_Power:

“…low temps significantly slow down plant growth. Allow an extra week or two for cold treated seedlings to grow. The second is that tomato seedlings are VERY sensitive to excess water. What's excess? You must let tomato plants dry out until they just start to wilt if you want them to be healthy. Give them plenty of water when they are dry, just be sure they are thoroughly dry before you water. The last caution is that you need air circulation even when it is cold. Be sure you have a fan blowing across the seedlings at least part of the day. It encourages the plant to grow a sturdy stem."

Good Luck!

Steve

oakley · June 18, 2016

Just thought of something else.

Check SampleSeedShop. Fantastic variety and the packets are 1.50 each.
She is a member here.

Maybe try a couple dwarfs. I just stared a half tray a few weeks ago. Small and compact seedlings. Very easy to grow. I have a micro i'm planning to grow in smaller containers through the winter months.

luigiwu · June 18, 2016

What's the issue of going cheap? You get great/excellent results for not a whole lot of $$$?
You don't need anything super fancy for good lighting! Its ridiculously simple I find! cheapest T8 shoplights and Daylight Deluxe Alto lights, all from the big box store.
Starting from seed may be my most favorite part of all of this!

encore · June 18, 2016

i just keep the lights low to the plants and have a fan blowing on them, all done in the basement. and took the heat mats out after they sprouted, no leggy seedlings this year lol.

Dutch · June 18, 2016

I think the following are some of the common mistakes folks make that contribute to leggy plants.

· Lights too far away from plants
· Growing temperature too warm
· Lack of total darkest when lights are off

Dutch

Dutch · June 18, 2016

There are some combinations of the things I stated above that come into play.

An example of this would be if the room temperature was 75F or above during the lights off cycle and a light was on somewhere else in the room. The temperature would be telling the plant to grow and it would stretch because even low light, it would be trying to grow.

Another scenario would be if the room temperature was 60F or lower during the lights off cycle and a light was on somewhere else in the room. The temperature would be limiting plant growth and therefore the ambient light would not be causing the plant to stretch.

This happens outside in nature all the time.
It is the difference between night and day.

Dutch

travis · June 18, 2016

Christian, you can grow 16 or more plants in a clear or opaque, rectangular plastic storage or tote tub under a couple of twin florescent tube 24-inch long shop bench light fixture, or a 4-tube fixture like the ones hung on ceilings in a laundry room, etc.

You should use a deep tub like about 9 - 11 inches deep, the one that costs about $8 at Dollar General or Walmart. Try to find one with a clear or opaque lid if possible.

Start your seeds on 16 or 18 ounce red plastic "Dixie cups" set in a plastic tray or on a ridged sheet of lexan, etc., elevated on bricks, etc., inside the tub, so the rims of the cups will be an inch or so below the rim of the tub.

The cups should have a couple of small holes drilled in the bottoms to drain, and should be filled with a sterile, soilless seed starting mix. Dampen the seed mix

Plant several seeds in each cup. Mark the variety name on each cup with a black Sharpie.

With the tray of cups set into the tub on a table near an electric outlet, keep them damp and warm, 70 - 78*F, until the very first sprout emerges, then immediately set the florescent tube fixture, with half "warm spectrum" tubes and half "cool spectrum" tubes, atop the tub.
As the seedlings grow, lower the tray of cups by removing bricks or whateve you're using for shims, but keeping the tops of the seedlings as close to the lights as possible without touching.

When the first true leaves have at least half emerged on most of the seedlings, thin out the sprouts to keep only the best two or three seedlings per cup. Move the entire unit to a cool place, like an attached garage or a cool room in the house where the 24-hour ambient temp will be 55 - 65*F for a week or so of "cold treatment." This will help make them less leggy and promote better and earlier flowering later on.

When the second true leaves have mostly emerged at least halfway, you can move the to a slightly warmer room, like maybe 64 - 70*F, but the three things that make for leggy seedlings and transplants, in order of priority, are lowlight, high temp, and excessive fertilizer.

Eventually, thin the seedlings to the best single seedling per cup. Do this before they get too crowded, or they may get leggy competing with one another.

Anytime the spring weather permits, put the tub outside in a protected but sunny location. I put mine in the cab of my pickup truck, facing the sun on the front seat, and even roll the window down a little so they don't cook. In fact, I've not used lights at all for the past 3 years, but then I live in southern indiana.

Don't fertilize the seedlings until the cotyledons yellow or wither, and then only half-strength, and with a lower nitrogen, higher phosphorus (Rose food or bloom booster formula), and only when you know you're going to plant outside in the next 10 days or so.

June 18, 2016	#1
christian1971 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 94	Leggy Prevention Are low hanging grow lights really going to prevent leggy, spindly seedlings? Im still debating whether to grow seedlings next year or go with plants again. What light system would you recommend. I don't want to go cheap but not a $1000 system either. Just so scared to end up screwing up again and end up buying plants again. Talking around 15 plants. Sorry if this topic has been talked to death. It early in the am.

June 18, 2016	#8
sjamesNorway Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 1,049	Give them the cold treatment As others have stated, adequate lighting is of utmost importance. I use 58W/865 shop lighting, which has a color temperature close to daylight at 6500 K. I also use "the cold treatment" as described here by amideutch: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ent#post154107 It's very important to be careful with watering, as cautioned by Fusion_Power: “…low temps significantly slow down plant growth. Allow an extra week or two for cold treated seedlings to grow. The second is that tomato seedlings are VERY sensitive to excess water. What's excess? You must let tomato plants dry out until they just start to wilt if you want them to be healthy. Give them plenty of water when they are dry, just be sure they are thoroughly dry before you water. The last caution is that you need air circulation even when it is cold. Be sure you have a fan blowing across the seedlings at least part of the day. It encourages the plant to grow a sturdy stem." Good Luck! Steve

June 18, 2016	#10
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	What's the issue of going cheap? You get great/excellent results for not a whole lot of $$$? You don't need anything super fancy for good lighting! Its ridiculously simple I find! cheapest T8 shoplights and Daylight Deluxe Alto lights, all from the big box store. Starting from seed may be my most favorite part of all of this! __________________ Subirrigated Container gardening (RGGS) in NY, Zone 7! Last edited by luigiwu; June 18, 2016 at 12:05 PM.

June 18, 2016	#12
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	I think the following are some of the common mistakes folks make that contribute to leggy plants. · Lights too far away from plants · Growing temperature too warm · Lack of total darkest when lights are off Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries. Last edited by Dutch; June 18, 2016 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Formating

June 18, 2016	#13
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	There are some combinations of the things I stated above that come into play. An example of this would be if the room temperature was 75F or above during the lights off cycle and a light was on somewhere else in the room. The temperature would be telling the plant to grow and it would stretch because even low light, it would be trying to grow. Another scenario would be if the room temperature was 60F or lower during the lights off cycle and a light was on somewhere else in the room. The temperature would be limiting plant growth and therefore the ambient light would not be causing the plant to stretch. This happens outside in nature all the time. It is the difference between night and day. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries. Last edited by Dutch; June 19, 2016 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Added - It is the difference between night and day.

June 18, 2016	#2
Bulldog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Georgia Posts: 126	Read under the starting from seed, and there is a lot of info on grow lights.

June 18, 2016	#3
garyc1234 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Zone 10a (Alameda, CA) Posts: 67	I'm probably in the minority but I don't think leggy seedlings matter too much. If you see your seedlings get too leggy, just pot up, covering most of the stem with potting mixture. If your container gets too large for grow lights, take your plants outside to harden. (Slowly harden to prevent sun and wind damage. Shady in an area protected from too much wind is good to start.). Good luck!

June 18, 2016	#5
oakley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NewYork 5a Posts: 2,303	Another tip and something i encourage, especially if you choose to try a light set-up... No reason to wait until next season, a year from now. Start some now and learn from it. Seeds are cheap. Start 4-6 seed of just two or three varieties. Any ol' thing. Take notes and start date etc. And do ask for help and take pics with a question. Best to keep your 'adventure' all on one posting so those assisting can follow the progress. Everyone here had their first seed starting year. Once you start saving your own seeds, free. If i only had room for 15 plants i would start a full tray of 36, two per cell. You may loose a few, a few may not germinate...more plants for experimenting and insurance.

June 18, 2016	#6
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	The simple answer is yes. Lighting makes a huge difference. From there, follow Oaklley's advice which is dead on. The biggest advantages of starting from seed is you get to grow what you want, second biggest is no growth inhibitor hormones or additives like the big box stores add to keep growth slow for shelf space. Good luck , it's really pretty easy.

June 18, 2016	#9
oakley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NewYork 5a Posts: 2,303	Just thought of something else. Check SampleSeedShop. Fantastic variety and the packets are 1.50 each. She is a member here. Maybe try a couple dwarfs. I just stared a half tray a few weeks ago. Small and compact seedlings. Very easy to grow. I have a micro i'm planning to grow in smaller containers through the winter months.

June 18, 2016	#11
encore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: wisconsin Posts: 536	i just keep the lights low to the plants and have a fan blowing on them, all done in the basement. and took the heat mats out after they sprouted, no leggy seedlings this year lol.

June 18, 2016	#14
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Christian, you can grow 16 or more plants in a clear or opaque, rectangular plastic storage or tote tub under a couple of twin florescent tube 24-inch long shop bench light fixture, or a 4-tube fixture like the ones hung on ceilings in a laundry room, etc. You should use a deep tub like about 9 - 11 inches deep, the one that costs about $8 at Dollar General or Walmart. Try to find one with a clear or opaque lid if possible. Start your seeds on 16 or 18 ounce red plastic "Dixie cups" set in a plastic tray or on a ridged sheet of lexan, etc., elevated on bricks, etc., inside the tub, so the rims of the cups will be an inch or so below the rim of the tub. The cups should have a couple of small holes drilled in the bottoms to drain, and should be filled with a sterile, soilless seed starting mix. Dampen the seed mix Plant several seeds in each cup. Mark the variety name on each cup with a black Sharpie. With the tray of cups set into the tub on a table near an electric outlet, keep them damp and warm, 70 - 78F, until the very first sprout emerges, then immediately set the florescent tube fixture, with half "warm spectrum" tubes and half "cool spectrum" tubes, atop the tub. As the seedlings grow, lower the tray of cups by removing bricks or whateve you're using for shims, but keeping the tops of the seedlings as close to the lights as possible without touching. When the first true leaves have at least half emerged on most of the seedlings, thin out the sprouts to keep only the best two or three seedlings per cup. Move the entire unit to a cool place, like an attached garage or a cool room in the house where the 24-hour ambient temp will be 55 - 65F for a week or so of "cold treatment." This will help make them less leggy and promote better and earlier flowering later on. When the second true leaves have mostly emerged at least halfway, you can move the to a slightly warmer room, like maybe 64 - 70*F, but the three things that make for leggy seedlings and transplants, in order of priority, are lowlight, high temp, and excessive fertilizer. Eventually, thin the seedlings to the best single seedling per cup. Do this before they get too crowded, or they may get leggy competing with one another. Anytime the spring weather permits, put the tub outside in a protected but sunny location. I put mine in the cab of my pickup truck, facing the sun on the front seat, and even roll the window down a little so they don't cook. In fact, I've not used lights at all for the past 3 years, but then I live in southern indiana. Don't fertilize the seedlings until the cotyledons yellow or wither, and then only half-strength, and with a lower nitrogen, higher phosphorus (Rose food or bloom booster formula), and only when you know you're going to plant outside in the next 10 days or so.