Factors Influencing Flavor - Page 2

Tormato · May 7, 2011

In my garden, it's only the BIG TWO.
#1 is variety (genetics)
#2 is watering

Nothing else effects taste to such a high degree.

organichris · May 7, 2011

A few people have mentioned sunlight. I would like some clarification on that one. Is that primarily the intensity of sunlight in a given growing season? In other words, more sunny days and less cloudy days. Or does it have to do with sun exposure in the garden spot? Or could it be either or both?

And is there a point at which it doesn't really matter anymore with respect to general sun exposure? In other words once you get to eight hours of direct sunlight, for instance, ten won't make a difference.

ddsack · May 8, 2011

I think it depends what part of the country you live in. Here in the north, amount of sun (and heat) makes a big difference since we have a shorter season and cooler nights in general. In the south, people talk about using shade cloth and having too high temperatures for blossom set.

I think the total number of days during the season that unclouded sun is available would be more important than whether the plants got more than 8 hours of sun per day, however, in a cloudy, rainy year obviously each additional hour of sun per day would be a benefit.

Here in the upper midwest, we get normally do get many sunny days, with high's in the 75-85+F range, ideal for tomato growth, assuming we are not cut short by early frosts. Meanwhile folks in the PNW will usually have slower development with their rainier weather, but can count on a longer season. I think each region has different problems to solve in adapting the environment to growing good tasting tomatoes. My best tomato flavors have been in the hot, sunny, near drought summers, where I could control the amount of water, but Texans would probably have called it spring weather.

And yes, the quality of sunlight also makes a difference, as after mid-August/Sept the sun in northern parts has a lower arc in the sky, and the rays lose the intensity of the midsummer sun.

RayR · May 8, 2011

Chris, I think it depends where you live since the intensity of summer sunlight varies from North to South as do the length of days, it varies from spring to summer, and the number of sunny days vs. cloudy days is a factor too. Direct sunlight is important, morning sun is best for tomatoes, and some early afternoon shade can do a lot of good especially for folks in hot Southern climates. I don't know if 8 hours or 10 hours would make any difference or not, again it depends on the general climate where you live.

I can't speak for the experiences of others but I think the ideal for me, who lives in the North, with a growing season that is typically between June and into part of September (of course there have been those rare odd years when I was still picking tomatoes into November) would be a total of 8-10 hours of direct sun in the morning and middle to late afternoon, with some shade or dappled sunlight when the sun is at its height and most intense in the summer, 75-80 degrees every day and many more sunny days than cloudy days. It doesn't always work out that way unfortunately.

TerraGenics · May 8, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankkj

I am inclined to agree with genetics.

Ultimately it comes down to genetics. A plant can only express what it is capable based on it's genetic make up. Aside from sunlight, watering, etc. something I don't see really mentioned is available nutrients/minerals/etc. A plant can only express it's genetic potential if it has ALL of the components it needs. If anything is missing or inadequate in amount it'll fall short. IMO trace elements are very important for full expression...among other things...as they are the backbone of enzymes which are responsible for biochemical reactions in the plant.

I'm also big on 100% organic growing focusing on healthy soil structure and soil flora.

tuk50 · May 9, 2011

I'll have to vote for sun and water plus nutrients thrown in also.. you can't make some varieties taste good period, but can take a good tasty variety and make it bland ...like desertlbzn mentioned we have to water daily most of the summer months and I can change the taste of my tomatoes with water amounts... I always use many inches of mulch so don't know how that changes things.. and our humidity like yesterday is 11percent with my high of 94degrees and my night low was 48degrees two days ago.. this is a unique enviroment to say the least and is probably why some varieties that are raved about on the forums are only so so here and vise versa...
Our enviroment can and does change the taste sometimes dramatically .

darioluis · October 11, 2016

hi
I think your question is the type between determinism and randomness
sorry for my English
I do hydroponics (without electricity), and beer

imp · October 11, 2016

I think all the things mentioned play a role in the taste of a tomato, plus another very important factor the person's own genetics, taste profiles, and health at the time of eating anything.

There are so many factors involved with taste- and various ones can be more "forward" of others at various times.

zeroma · October 14, 2016

on the hydroponic tomatoes:

I have a preconceived idea that because they are grown in water, they will be "less tasty" than tomatoes grown in the soil.

Any opinions from others?

Zeroma

ilex · October 15, 2016

Genetics
Water (dew and very high humidity count as water). Tomatoes can be grown as almost desert plants with virtually no water.

Less important
Healthy plant. You need leaves to feed tomatoes.
Healthy soil. If something is missing they won't grow properly. If you over fertilize, you might dilute flavour.

Bruinwar · October 15, 2016

I d not know for sure, all suggestions here seem valid but IMO cool weather can really ruin a good tomato. Our community garden organization had their tomato tasting event in September this year after a couple weeks of cold nights & over 50 varieties tasted pretty much the same, as someone said: muted. Some cherries were sweet though.

I brought 3 quarts of juice to the event, black (Black Krim), yellow (KBT!!!) & green (ARGG) & they were a huge hit. People went nuts over the taste! That is what a tomato is supposed to taste like. It's nice to be able to capture it at the height of flavor.

Only 38 quarts left to hold me over till next July.

bower · October 15, 2016

Besides genetics of the tomato and the taster, everything that affects potassium uptake affects tomato taste, including:
- not enough sunshine, whether it's the general weather or caused by overcrowding/shading
- cold soil
- compacted soil
- waterlogged soil
- of course, potassium deficient soil.

I have read that the heavier the fruit load, the more severe the effects of potassium deficiency caused by any of the above. This is one explanation, for why cherries and small fruit tend to be better tasting even when others are below par. But I've also seen it in larger fruit, a plant with fewer fruit also happened to have better quality under(one or more) K stress conditions listed above.

May 8, 2011	#18
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	I think it depends what part of the country you live in. Here in the north, amount of sun (and heat) makes a big difference since we have a shorter season and cooler nights in general. In the south, people talk about using shade cloth and having too high temperatures for blossom set. I think the total number of days during the season that unclouded sun is available would be more important than whether the plants got more than 8 hours of sun per day, however, in a cloudy, rainy year obviously each additional hour of sun per day would be a benefit. Here in the upper midwest, we get normally do get many sunny days, with high's in the 75-85+F range, ideal for tomato growth, assuming we are not cut short by early frosts. Meanwhile folks in the PNW will usually have slower development with their rainier weather, but can count on a longer season. I think each region has different problems to solve in adapting the environment to growing good tasting tomatoes. My best tomato flavors have been in the hot, sunny, near drought summers, where I could control the amount of water, but Texans would probably have called it spring weather. And yes, the quality of sunlight also makes a difference, as after mid-August/Sept the sun in northern parts has a lower arc in the sky, and the rays lose the intensity of the midsummer sun. __________________ Dee **************

May 9, 2011	#21
tuk50 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tucson, Arizona (catalina) Posts: 413	I'll have to vote for sun and water plus nutrients thrown in also.. you can't make some varieties taste good period, but can take a good tasty variety and make it bland ...like desertlbzn mentioned we have to water daily most of the summer months and I can change the taste of my tomatoes with water amounts... I always use many inches of mulch so don't know how that changes things.. and our humidity like yesterday is 11percent with my high of 94degrees and my night low was 48degrees two days ago.. this is a unique enviroment to say the least and is probably why some varieties that are raved about on the forums are only so so here and vise versa... Our enviroment can and does change the taste sometimes dramatically . __________________ Hangin on for dear life!

May 7, 2011	#16
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,971	In my garden, it's only the BIG TWO. #1 is variety (genetics) #2 is watering Nothing else effects taste to such a high degree.

May 7, 2011	#17
organichris Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 630	A few people have mentioned sunlight. I would like some clarification on that one. Is that primarily the intensity of sunlight in a given growing season? In other words, more sunny days and less cloudy days. Or does it have to do with sun exposure in the garden spot? Or could it be either or both? And is there a point at which it doesn't really matter anymore with respect to general sun exposure? In other words once you get to eight hours of direct sunlight, for instance, ten won't make a difference.

May 8, 2011	#19
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Chris, I think it depends where you live since the intensity of summer sunlight varies from North to South as do the length of days, it varies from spring to summer, and the number of sunny days vs. cloudy days is a factor too. Direct sunlight is important, morning sun is best for tomatoes, and some early afternoon shade can do a lot of good especially for folks in hot Southern climates. I don't know if 8 hours or 10 hours would make any difference or not, again it depends on the general climate where you live. I can't speak for the experiences of others but I think the ideal for me, who lives in the North, with a growing season that is typically between June and into part of September (of course there have been those rare odd years when I was still picking tomatoes into November) would be a total of 8-10 hours of direct sun in the morning and middle to late afternoon, with some shade or dappled sunlight when the sun is at its height and most intense in the summer, 75-80 degrees every day and many more sunny days than cloudy days. It doesn't always work out that way unfortunately.

October 11, 2016	#22
darioluis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: argentina Posts: 1	hi I think your question is the type between determinism and randomness sorry for my English I do hydroponics (without electricity), and beer

October 11, 2016	#23
imp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 4,832	I think all the things mentioned play a role in the taste of a tomato, plus another very important factor the person's own genetics, taste profiles, and health at the time of eating anything. There are so many factors involved with taste- and various ones can be more "forward" of others at various times.

October 14, 2016	#24
zeroma Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 637	on the hydroponic tomatoes: I have a preconceived idea that because they are grown in water, they will be "less tasty" than tomatoes grown in the soil. Any opinions from others? Zeroma

October 15, 2016	#25
ilex Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Spain Posts: 416	Genetics Water (dew and very high humidity count as water). Tomatoes can be grown as almost desert plants with virtually no water. Less important Healthy plant. You need leaves to feed tomatoes. Healthy soil. If something is missing they won't grow properly. If you over fertilize, you might dilute flavour.

October 15, 2016	#26
Bruinwar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Ann Arbor Michigan Posts: 93	I d not know for sure, all suggestions here seem valid but IMO cool weather can really ruin a good tomato. Our community garden organization had their tomato tasting event in September this year after a couple weeks of cold nights & over 50 varieties tasted pretty much the same, as someone said: muted. Some cherries were sweet though. I brought 3 quarts of juice to the event, black (Black Krim), yellow (KBT!!!) & green (ARGG) & they were a huge hit. People went nuts over the taste! That is what a tomato is supposed to taste like. It's nice to be able to capture it at the height of flavor. Only 38 quarts left to hold me over till next July.

October 15, 2016	#27
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Besides genetics of the tomato and the taster, everything that affects potassium uptake affects tomato taste, including: - not enough sunshine, whether it's the general weather or caused by overcrowding/shading - cold soil - compacted soil - waterlogged soil - of course, potassium deficient soil. I have read that the heavier the fruit load, the more severe the effects of potassium deficiency caused by any of the above. This is one explanation, for why cherries and small fruit tend to be better tasting even when others are below par. But I've also seen it in larger fruit, a plant with fewer fruit also happened to have better quality under(one or more) K stress conditions listed above.