Indeterminate versions of early determinates

Has anyone found any indeterminate sports of any of the many early determinate tomatoes out there (e.g. 42 Days, Alaska Fancy, Belyi Naliv, Clear Pink Early, Dina, Ditmarsher, Early Annie, Early Wonder, EM-Champion, First Pick, Forest Fire, Glacier, Gold Nugget, Gruntowy, Hana, Kalinka, Klusha, Kmicic, Koralic, Lagidnyi, Legend, Mac Pink, Manitoba, Marman World's Earliest, Moira, Mountain Princess, Polar Beauty, Red Rocket, Rosabec, Siberian, Siletz, Silvery Fir Tree, Sophie's Choice, Sub-Arctic Plenty, and Taxi)? I'm especially interested in hearing about any with 4+oz fruits, but I'd like to hear about smaller ones, too.

[bower]

I don't know if they were true sports or wrong seeds, but I have picked up a few 'non-determinate' plants along the way. Not-Sophie's Choice is one indeterminate that has been discussed here - fruit were pretty good tasting. This was circulating for awhile.
Also there is an indeterminate Sasha's Altai (besides a Not-Sasha's I grew, which had a ruffled pear shape so really not Sashas). West Coast Seeds sells it.
I grew Glacier from several sources and it was indeterminate each time.
But these may be wrong seeds, not sports.

To be sure it is a sport, you would have to be growing the determinate, knowing the plant and saving the bagged seeds, and then have it turn indeterminate. And the fruit presumably would be the same.
I think unintended crosses are more likely the cause. Since we're talking about reds, it might be hard to know if you had a cross or not.....

OTOH I haven't been able to find true determinate version of "Black Sea Man". They are all indeterminate for me.

[KarenO]

Originally Posted by bower

I don't know if they were true sports or wrong seeds, but I have picked up a few 'non-determinate' plants along the way. Not-Sophie's Choice is one indeterminate that has been discussed here - fruit were pretty good tasting. This was circulating for awhile.
Also there is an indeterminate Sasha's Altai (besides a Not-Sasha's I grew, which had a ruffled pear shape so really not Sashas). West Coast Seeds sells it.
I grew Glacier from several sources and it was indeterminate each time.
But these may be wrong seeds, not sports.

To be sure it is a sport, you would have to be growing the determinate, knowing the plant and saving the bagged seeds, and then have it turn indeterminate. And the fruit presumably would be the same.
I think unintended crosses are more likely the cause. Since we're talking about reds, it might be hard to know if you had a cross or not.....

OTOH I haven't been able to find true determinate version of "Black Sea Man". They are all indeterminate for me.

where did you get seed for black sea man Bower
KO

Originally Posted by bower

I don't know if they were true sports or wrong seeds, but I have picked up a few 'non-determinate' plants along the way. Not-Sophie's Choice is one indeterminate that has been discussed here - fruit were pretty good tasting. This was circulating for awhile.
Also there is an indeterminate Sasha's Altai (besides a Not-Sasha's I grew, which had a ruffled pear shape so really not Sashas). West Coast Seeds sells it.
I grew Glacier from several sources and it was indeterminate each time.
But these may be wrong seeds, not sports.

To be sure it is a sport, you would have to be growing the determinate, knowing the plant and saving the bagged seeds, and then have it turn indeterminate. And the fruit presumably would be the same.
I think unintended crosses are more likely the cause. Since we're talking about reds, it might be hard to know if you had a cross or not.....

OTOH I haven't been able to find true determinate version of "Black Sea Man". They are all indeterminate for me.

Thanks. That's great to know. I'll have to look up some stuff.

I don't just mean to be talking about reds. Any color works.

I grew Glacier from Baker Creek last year. The plants were very small, and late for me, but the fruits smelled like blackberries in my mouth (they tasted like tomatoes, though). People say Glacier produces all season, notwithstanding it's said to be determinate. I didn't get a large or early enough harvest on Glacier to be able to verify this, though. It apparently wanted different soil, air or something. It's probably used to containers or looser soil (I had it in the ground, in once-clay soil that has been amended over the years). I should probably try it from saved seed to let it further acclimatize to my soil.

Black Sea Man is on my 2017 to-grow list.

[bower]

Originally Posted by KarenO

where did you get seed for black sea man Bower
KO

Seed of the 'Chernomor' that we still grow (Mom loves it) came from Terra Edibles in Ontario as 'Black Sea Man'. A second source came to me in MMM swap - they were identical.

[NarnianGarden]

I have had hard time recognizing my Black Sea Men if they were det or indet. Funny, as it should be obvious.. but wasn't..

[Andrey_BY]

There are two different tomato varieties called Chernomor (Black Sea Man in English) available from two Russian seed vendors Biotechnica (PL, compact semi-det, a heirloom var.) and Sedek (RL, indet., commercial variety).

[carolyn137]

I've had the reverse, that is a variety bred as an indet but when planted out was clearly a det.

That happened with the variety Green Zebra which was bred by Tom Wagner. When I saw that I contacted him and he confirmed that it was originally indet and was upset when I told him that.

What happened was that when I was at the Hortus Nursery in Pasadena in CA Tom drove down from Bakersfield and brough me I think four seedlings for me to take home.

I took them with me on the plane from LA to Chicago,from there via AA to the Albany,NY airport.

I planted them out and all were still determinate.

So I don't know if there was a somatic mutation going on,or what.

Carolyn

[NarnianGarden]

My Chernomors were definitely PL, but as for their growth habit, perhaps they were sort of semi-det... and the branches would clearly be det if the plants were allowed to grow for a long period. (mine were discarded in the end of Sept..)

[akgardengirl]

Mine are also more compact, bushy, PL, and I got the seed from Tania back in 2009 or so. Big discussion on Black Sea Man here several years back. I am growing it again this year with new seed from Tania.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I've had the reverse, that is a variety bred as an indet but when planted out was clearly a det.

That happened with the variety Green Zebra which was bred by Tom Wagner. When I saw that I contacted him and he confirmed that it was originally indet and was upset when I told him that.

What happened was that when I was at the Hortus Nursery in Pasadena in CA Tom drove down from Bakersfield and brough me I think four seedlings for me to take home.

I took them with me on the plane from LA to Chicago,from there via AA to the Albany,NY airport.

I planted them out and all were still determinate.

So I don't know if there was a somatic mutation going on,or what.

Carolyn

How did it produce for you as a determinate? That's interesting. I grew Green Zebra in 2015, and GGWT in 2016. I'm trying Orange and Green Zebra (and probably GGWT, again) this year.

Chernomor sounds like a cool variety. I should add that to my list of future tomatoes.