Can anyone help identify this?

PdxMatos · March 19, 2018

I started some seedlings a month ago and they were coming up fine in their plugs, but soon after I transplanted them into pots, they started having all sorts of trouble. Leaves drooping and turning purple. (Photos 1 and 2) Leaves not quite growing right, and yellowing and curling up at the edges. (Photos 3 and 4) and some plants becoming badly deformed, so much that I gave up and pulled them up. (Photos 5 and 6)

The soil seems in the 'green zone' according to my moisture gauge. There should be plenty of nutrients. They are indoors under a grow light, so their temperature and humidity is fairly consistent. There are a few insects flying about, but it doesn't look like insect damage, and it is affecting many varieties (albeit in quite different ways) some of which are fairly disease resistant. In fact the worst affected seem to be BigBeef and Maxifort which are resistant to most things.

Did I do something wrong?

Hatgirl · March 19, 2018

Might be oedema. I can't quite see the underside of the leaf. Does it look like mine in this thread?

KarenO · March 19, 2018

oh dear..
what are they planted in, what sort and how much fertilizer has been used, what kind of lights and what temperature
KarenO

PdxMatos · March 19, 2018

They are planted in black gold organic potting soil, with some added alfalfa pellets and cottonseed meal at the recommended levels on the package. When they were in plugs I gave them half strength Texas Vegetable Food.
The light is a 900w verisprecta.
The room fluctuates between a daily high of 78f and a low at night of 64f with humidity between 45-60%.

Cole_Robbie · March 19, 2018

Your problem is bacterial in nature, I think. The soil is too rich for the environment of cool temperatures and low light, compared to being outdoors in summer. You are growing too many bad anaerobic bacteria like pythium, and not enough beneficial aerobic bacteria. The bad guys are happy to feast on the extra organic fertilizer in the mix. I'm not against organic fertilizers, but when I use them at cool temperatures on seedlings, I have the same results that you are having.

PdxMatos · March 19, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatgirl

Might be oedema. I can't quite see the underside of the leaf. Does it look like mine in this thread?

This leaf does. (attached)

I'm not sure about the worst ones. Take a look. Attached is a close up of the underside of the cotyledon of the plant I pulled up as well as its top leaves. Does this look like Oedema?

PdxMatos · March 19, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Your problem is bacterial in nature, I think. The soil is too rich for the environment of cool temperatures and low light, compared to being outdoors in summer. You are growing too many bad anaerobic bacteria like pythium, and not enough beneficial aerobic bacteria. The bad guys are happy to feast on the extra organic fertilizer in the mix. I'm not against organic fertilizers, but when I use them at cool temperatures on seedlings, I have the same results that you are having.

If that's the case is the solution raising the temperature? Or would I have to start over?

KarenO · March 19, 2018

Im afraid you will need to start over. Use sterile soil-less seedling mix, do not add such additives as the alfalfa etc. young seedlings don't need it and I think I see here a combination of several problems but the most severe and irreparable is fungus. Unfortunately That Likely came from your organic soil.
Mature plants can handle real soil and all of the fungus and bacteria that come with it but seedlings cannot. Still lots of time to resow and That is my recommendation. Bleach out all containers and clean your area very well also before resowing.
KarenO

MissS · March 19, 2018

Unfortunately you need to start over. Never add soil amendments to your seedlings until they have been placed out in the garden. These things need the bacteria in the soil to break them down. As Cole_Robbie has stated, you will only encourage the bad pathogens if you use these indoors. In fact I will only use the blue type of fertilizers indoors and wait for the organics until I have planted them outdoors.

Hatgirl · March 20, 2018

I think the others are right that the feed and other amendments are the problem. I do a lot of indoor growing (micros) but I never use anything more than multipurpose peat compost until the plant needs to go into an 8inch pot (that's a micro's final destination).
But it could also be oedema, because problems can be multifactorial! For your next batch, keep an eye on your lower leaves and if the otherwise healthy plants have corking, find a way to lower the humidity.

Worth1 · March 20, 2018

Well meaning people have spoken but they have left out one important thing, or I didn't see it.
Yes seeds can sprout and live in well fertilized soil outside, seen it a thousand times.
Why is it then you have so many problems doing it inside?
What is missing inside?
UV light.
We dont have UV light on our plants inside but it is outside.
Without the sun putting out UV light we would all be living in a sewer.
Worth

March 19, 2018	#9
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	Unfortunately you need to start over. Never add soil amendments to your seedlings until they have been placed out in the garden. These things need the bacteria in the soil to break them down. As Cole_Robbie has stated, you will only encourage the bad pathogens if you use these indoors. In fact I will only use the blue type of fertilizers indoors and wait for the organics until I have planted them outdoors. __________________ ~ Patti ~

March 19, 2018	#2
Hatgirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 211	Might be oedema. I can't quite see the underside of the leaf. Does it look like mine in this thread?

March 19, 2018	#3
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,931	oh dear.. what are they planted in, what sort and how much fertilizer has been used, what kind of lights and what temperature KarenO

March 19, 2018	#4
PdxMatos Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Portland Posts: 16	They are planted in black gold organic potting soil, with some added alfalfa pellets and cottonseed meal at the recommended levels on the package. When they were in plugs I gave them half strength Texas Vegetable Food. The light is a 900w verisprecta. The room fluctuates between a daily high of 78f and a low at night of 64f with humidity between 45-60%.

March 19, 2018	#5
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Your problem is bacterial in nature, I think. The soil is too rich for the environment of cool temperatures and low light, compared to being outdoors in summer. You are growing too many bad anaerobic bacteria like pythium, and not enough beneficial aerobic bacteria. The bad guys are happy to feast on the extra organic fertilizer in the mix. I'm not against organic fertilizers, but when I use them at cool temperatures on seedlings, I have the same results that you are having.

March 20, 2018	#10
Hatgirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 211	I think the others are right that the feed and other amendments are the problem. I do a lot of indoor growing (micros) but I never use anything more than multipurpose peat compost until the plant needs to go into an 8inch pot (that's a micro's final destination). But it could also be oedema, because problems can be multifactorial! For your next batch, keep an eye on your lower leaves and if the otherwise healthy plants have corking, find a way to lower the humidity.

March 20, 2018	#11
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Well meaning people have spoken but they have left out one important thing, or I didn't see it. Yes seeds can sprout and live in well fertilized soil outside, seen it a thousand times. Why is it then you have so many problems doing it inside? What is missing inside? UV light. We dont have UV light on our plants inside but it is outside. Without the sun putting out UV light we would all be living in a sewer. Worth