Copper wire for preventing Fusarium and Verticillium

Benign Majesty · March 26, 2019

Has anyone had success with this technique of piercing a tomato stem with copper wire to fend off verticillium and fusarium wilt?

https://garden.org/learn/articles/view/79/

Tormato · March 26, 2019

Success? The first question should be has anyone heard of it.

Briefly reading a small sample of results, it may be that those that likely have enough copper in their soil nutrients won't see any improvements, while those who may have a deficiency may see an improvement.

I believe a true scientific test would be needed to come to any possible conclusion.

My own test will be to monitor the hardware stores stock of copper wire, and possibly draw a conclusion if supplies are low or out.

Scooty · March 26, 2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormato

Success? The first question should be has anyone heard of it.

Briefly reading a small sample of results, it may be that those that likely have enough copper in their soil nutrients won't see any improvements, while those who may have a deficiency may see an improvement.

I believe a true scientific test would be needed to come to any possible conclusion.

My own test will be to monitor the hardware stores stock of copper wire, and possibly draw a conclusion if supplies are low or out.

I've never even heard of this. I always figured any gardener running to get copper wire had slug or snail issues.

Benign Majesty · March 27, 2019

I might try it on a couple of my plants to see what kind of empirical results i get. I've already lost 3 out of 16 plants to Fusarium this year.

brownrexx · March 27, 2019

Only 50% of the people who tried it in the link said that it worked but if I had fusarium or verticillium problems then I would probably try it but I would also grow resistant varieties and not fight nature.

Ironwood · March 27, 2019

Oh jeez the old spike through the stalk again..

First the obvious is a wound right at the crown of the plant. A clear through hole. So many problems can potentially occur when creating a portal for dirty air, soil, and water getting inside the stem.

Fusarium is a fungus issue and copper is used to combat fungus, it makes sense that a deficient plant would be more susceptible to fungal diseases. To get to the source, let's make sure the plant can use the copper that is in the soil or plant already. Remembering copper is highly immobile in the plant.

Most soils contain enough copper for plants. The Nightshade family does like copper a little more than other plants.

Clay and loam usually have enough copper where Sandy soils are more prone to be lacking. Also making sure the soil pH is below 7.5 is key to preventing copper deficiencies among others.

Copper is transfered to the plant as a cation. In order to increase the CEC (cation exchange capacity) add humic acid, in return making copper (and other nutrients) more available to the plant. i.e add compost or a compost tea, which are excellent source of humic acids. Easy peasy!

Copper sulfate can be added to the soil if the soil is deficient to begin with. Beware as there is a fine line between deficient and toxic. Once in the soil it's there and can take years to get it out. For treating an actual deficiency I would foliar spray copper sulfate rather than amend. Just my opinion.

As for your soil it probably contains the pathogens from decaying plant matter and such. One thing you can do is cover the soil with black plastic and let it cook for a month. This will kill those funguses wiping out or at least beating down the fusarium. Another option is fumigation.

All that jargon out of the way my Grandmother swore by tossing a couple pennies into hole before planting. Just make sure they are pre 1982. Easier and safer than a spike.

Do I believe the pennies do anything? No. I believe the love she put in the soil with compost and teas made healthy plants that were able to resist nature's Borg attacks.

Happy growing!

Scooty · March 27, 2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrexx

Only 50% of the people who tried it in the link said that it worked but if I had fusarium or verticillium problems then I would probably try it but I would also grow resistant varieties and not fight nature.

Yeah but I wonder if its the copper or the wound inducing more vigor/strength that's creating the benefit. You'd need a control group with something more inert and completely non beneficial - maybe a control group using stainless steel wire.

I'd like to know where in China they supposedly heard about this technique, because I've never seen or heard this in practice in China. So much has changed with argi-techniques in asia, and there are reasons some practices die out, and it's not for a lack of want.

brownrexx · March 27, 2019

It does sound a little weird to intentionally damage a plant. I would not really want to do that.

Worth1 · March 27, 2019

Might as well put a foil pyramid on top too.

Benign Majesty · March 27, 2019

I've had worse results with so called disease resistant (F, V) plants than with random heirlooms that I grow from seeds. It's a bit of a crap shoot really.

My soil has 6.29 ppm of copper and a pH of 6.2, which i believe is borderline phytotoxic. Those cations should really be purring! The soil tends to stay moist pretty much all the time, and I've seen fungus gnats, so it is probably a breeding ground for all kinds of fungi.

I have no idea if the copper wire would work. Perhaps the proximity to the xylem in the lower part of the plant has some effect? Of course, it could do more harm than good and it does sound a bit like pseudoscience. Who knows.

DonDuck · March 27, 2019

like most of the others, I also have no idea if the copper wire will serve your purpose. I do however not see a problem with inserting the wire through the stem. Tomato plants seem very resilient to physical abuse. I can't calculate the number of threads about pruning them, spanking them, shaking them and many other abusive actions and they survive and thrive.

Most electrical copper wire has a coating on it to prevent corrosion. I don't see any benefit inserting a wire with the coating which will prevent the transfer of ion's from the wire to the plant. Look for uncoated wire.

March 26, 2019	#1
Benign Majesty Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 8	Copper wire for preventing Fusarium and Verticillium Has anyone had success with this technique of piercing a tomato stem with copper wire to fend off verticillium and fusarium wilt? https://garden.org/learn/articles/view/79/

March 27, 2019	#10
Benign Majesty Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 8	Plenty of copper in the soil I've had worse results with so called disease resistant (F, V) plants than with random heirlooms that I grow from seeds. It's a bit of a crap shoot really. My soil has 6.29 ppm of copper and a pH of 6.2, which i believe is borderline phytotoxic. Those cations should really be purring! The soil tends to stay moist pretty much all the time, and I've seen fungus gnats, so it is probably a breeding ground for all kinds of fungi. I have no idea if the copper wire would work. Perhaps the proximity to the xylem in the lower part of the plant has some effect? Of course, it could do more harm than good and it does sound a bit like pseudoscience. Who knows.

March 26, 2019	#2
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,971	Success? The first question should be has anyone heard of it. Briefly reading a small sample of results, it may be that those that likely have enough copper in their soil nutrients won't see any improvements, while those who may have a deficiency may see an improvement. I believe a true scientific test would be needed to come to any possible conclusion. My own test will be to monitor the hardware stores stock of copper wire, and possibly draw a conclusion if supplies are low or out.

March 27, 2019	#5
brownrexx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 1,420	Only 50% of the people who tried it in the link said that it worked but if I had fusarium or verticillium problems then I would probably try it but I would also grow resistant varieties and not fight nature.

March 27, 2019	#6
Ironwood Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Upstate Ny Zone 5b Posts: 29	Oh jeez the old spike through the stalk again.. First the obvious is a wound right at the crown of the plant. A clear through hole. So many problems can potentially occur when creating a portal for dirty air, soil, and water getting inside the stem. Fusarium is a fungus issue and copper is used to combat fungus, it makes sense that a deficient plant would be more susceptible to fungal diseases. To get to the source, let's make sure the plant can use the copper that is in the soil or plant already. Remembering copper is highly immobile in the plant. Most soils contain enough copper for plants. The Nightshade family does like copper a little more than other plants. Clay and loam usually have enough copper where Sandy soils are more prone to be lacking. Also making sure the soil pH is below 7.5 is key to preventing copper deficiencies among others. Copper is transfered to the plant as a cation. In order to increase the CEC (cation exchange capacity) add humic acid, in return making copper (and other nutrients) more available to the plant. i.e add compost or a compost tea, which are excellent source of humic acids. Easy peasy! Copper sulfate can be added to the soil if the soil is deficient to begin with. Beware as there is a fine line between deficient and toxic. Once in the soil it's there and can take years to get it out. For treating an actual deficiency I would foliar spray copper sulfate rather than amend. Just my opinion. As for your soil it probably contains the pathogens from decaying plant matter and such. One thing you can do is cover the soil with black plastic and let it cook for a month. This will kill those funguses wiping out or at least beating down the fusarium. Another option is fumigation. All that jargon out of the way my Grandmother swore by tossing a couple pennies into hole before planting. Just make sure they are pre 1982. Easier and safer than a spike. Do I believe the pennies do anything? No. I believe the love she put in the soil with compost and teas made healthy plants that were able to resist nature's Borg attacks. Happy growing!

March 27, 2019	#9
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Might as well put a foil pyramid on top too.

March 27, 2019	#11
DonDuck Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Corinth, texas Posts: 1,784	like most of the others, I also have no idea if the copper wire will serve your purpose. I do however not see a problem with inserting the wire through the stem. Tomato plants seem very resilient to physical abuse. I can't calculate the number of threads about pruning them, spanking them, shaking them and many other abusive actions and they survive and thrive. Most electrical copper wire has a coating on it to prevent corrosion. I don't see any benefit inserting a wire with the coating which will prevent the transfer of ion's from the wire to the plant. Look for uncoated wire.