Sungold dehybridized

[cdntomato]

Am looking for feedback on the various so-called dehybridized versions of Sungold being circulated. Any information, especially the history on Red Sungold and Sungold OP, would be appreciated.

And where does Sundrop fit in, if at all?

Thanks,
Jennifer

[Sorellina]

Ciao Jennifer,

I'm not sure what kind of feedback you're specifically looking for, but I can tell you that I grew Sungold OP from Solana last year. I thought at the time that it would be cool to save seed from this open-pollinated version with hopes that it tasted the same as the hybrid. It didn't, far from it in fact. I'm sticking with the hybrid this year. As a side note, it also succumbed to early blight in two locations, one in a 15 gallon IKEA bucket in the backyard in full sun and one in the front yard in the ground, also in full sun. It did, however make good sundried tomato raisins for salads in February.

Cheers, and I hope the weather in Kingston is kinder to your gardens this year

[cdntomato]

Keith, nothing wrong with it except that:

1) I've been asked by some biodynamic farmers to get it to the point where they can save their own seeds; many folks I hang with don't like the idea of 'corporate seeds' (hard to believe that I'm about the least political of the bunch )

2) they are really expensive to obtain in any quantity--have you seen the shipping charges to Canuckland lately??? Almost every seed company previously offering Sungold here in Canada has dropped it because of the expense.


J, thanks for the feedback on the OP!

Jennifer

[nctomatoman]

My view is that the desire to get an OP version of Sungold is the dependence on the expensive hybrid seed that could be discontinued at a moment's notice with no warning. With our market seedling sales, it is Sungold that everyone wants - I started nearly 250 seedlings this year and they will all be gone by mid May.

The only apparently stabilized OP that I tried (aside from my own futile attempts at something reasonable) is Sungold Select II, which I got from Reinhard Kraft. It is quite good, and I am regrowing it this year - well worth a try as a comparison to the hybrid.

I do need to by a quantity of Sungold F1 seed next spring...nearly out!

[cdntomato]

Craig, comments from you last year re discontinuing hybrids, particularly Sungold, have stuck in my mind too. Will keep you posted on my grow-outs this year.

Ta,
j

[carolyn137]

There are two Sungold OP's.

Reinhard first released Sungold Select, then released Sungold Select II that Craig referred to. And both are being sold.

If they are being offered just as OP, and they aren't being offered as they should be, as either Sungold Select or Sungold Select II then you have no idea what they are.

I mention that only b'c most folks seem to think that Sungold Select II is closer to the F1 hybrid than is Sungold Select.

I haven't grown either one.

I do grow Sungold F1 from time to time and believe it or not it's one of the 12 varieties I chose for the plants that Martha ( gardenmama) so generously offered to send to me the week before my first surgery on May 31 and I already have a tomato caretaker who will plant and care for them thru the summer so I won't be without fresh tomatoes.

I don't worry one bit about Sungold F1 being taken out of production. For heaven's sake, it's one of T and M's and other places highest selling varieties.

Those that have been taken out of production most recently seem to be the earliest hybrids from the 50's and 60's.

I dehybridized Ramapo F1 b'c it was taken out of production about 7 years ago and I had access to some F1 Ramapo to follow thru with the dehybridization. And last I knew Craig was going to work with Jet Star and Supersonic and Moreton Hybrid, all superb early hybrids bred by Harris. Now those I do see as candidates to go as did Ramapo.

Big Boy, Better Boy? Two of THE earliest hybrids and still going strong.

Red Sungold I know about Jennifer, but have never grown it and assume it's another one bred by the same Japanese company that bred Sungold.

So if your OP organic friends want the best OP Sungold currently available, tell them to get Sungold Select II.

[tjg911]

i'm glad to see carolyn comment on what i was going to ask - isn't sun gold f1 one of the most loved tomatoes and therefore unlikely to be dropped as sales must be high. i am surprised you like sun gold as it is so sweet and i thought you weren't fond of sweet tomatoes. long live sun gold!

tom

[carolyn137]

Tom,

Whatevver gave you the impression that I don't like sweet tomatoes?

I like all tomatoes that I like the TASTE of and some happen to be sweet and some don't.

Sweet tomatoes can have wonderful depth of flavor just as can non sweet ones.

For sure I've kidded around with folks and told them that eating Sungolds is like eating candy, and sometimes I eat candy too.

[cdntomato]

Thanks for your reply, Carolyn. I know about R. Kraft's dehybridizing work which has generated the 2 Sungold Selects. In addition to those 2, there is at least one other Sungold OP (funnily enough called exactly that). I've seen it/them listed alongside the Kraft ones, hence my question.

My Red Sungold is OP. Whether it was originally released as an F1 remains a mystery. Not much is said about either. For good reason? We shall see...

J

[carolyn137]

Jennifer,

I've never seen a Sungold just listed as an OP, especially when listed next to the two Kraft ones.

However, there is a variety named Sungold that is OP, but not called Sungold OP and it's probably not related to the Sungold most of us know since it's determinate and is a CV that originated with the Wiebull Seed Co in Sweden and has been listed by SSE itself in the SSE Yearbooks.

I'd go check my 2006 Yearbook but it's out in the back room and I'm not in the mood to wheel out there right now. But you can check yourself and see if anyone has relisted it.

[michael johnson]

There is a wonderfull sungold cross available here in the UK from Thompson & Morgan, called Sungella, it is a salad size tomato, I grew some last year and they produced realy well - tall indet plants, with truss after truss all the way up the stem , good desease resistance,same orange colour as sungold, not quite as sweet as sungold but very nearly.

[carolyn137]

Michael,

Sungella is also listed in the US version of the T and M catalog.

Based on feedback I've seen since it was introduced a few years ago, most go back to Sungold b'c they don't see Sungella as being as good as the original Sungold, although a few do say they thought it was worth growing it at least once.

As with all varieties, opinions do vary.

Actually I think there's been more talk about the name of the variety than the actual variety, with folks speculating about the "other" parent in terms of the "ella" part of the name. Maybe Tangella, maybe Craigella? No way to know for sure.

[Lee]

Another reason to have an OP version is the need
for ceritified organic seeds for organic farms.
I have yet to find Sungold seed that is certified organic.
Now, if our local organic CSA wanted to grow Sungold Select II, he could create the certified organic seed himself to grow on the farm the next year.

I have no problem buying the seed from the hybridizer, but
when they don't provide the "product" I need, I'll look somewhere else.

By the way, I think the whole idea that a certified organic farm has to use certified organic seed is a little bit going overboard.

Lee

[cdntomato]

I've never seen a Sungold just listed as an OP, especially when listed next to the two Kraft ones.

However, there is a variety named Sungold that is OP, but not called Sungold OP and it's probably not related to the Sungold most of us know since it's determinate and is a CV that originated with the Wiebull Seed Co in Sweden and has been listed by SSE itself in the SSE Yearbooks.

Thanks, Carolyn, I have the first Sungold Select (can't find a source for the SS II other than R. Kraft) and the Sungold OP. I will make note of what you've said re the latter. That would go far to explain Juliana's notsohappy experience with it when compared to the F1, if it is indeed the Swedish variety.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. Much appreciated.

Jennifer

[nctomatoman]

I've been growing Sungold Select II for a few years - surprised you didn't spot it on my seed list and ask for some, Jen!