Germination Testing

[amideutch]

As you trade and give seeds away it's always a good Idea to check the germination rate of your saved seeds. I just had a case in hand where I sent a fellow TV member some seed for Spudakee Purple and Golden Cherokee. He reported back to me that he was having germination problems with the seed I sent. Later on they did germinate. If you ever do have germination problems with seeds received in trade or from a vendor please report it! That way the supplier/trader can check his or her lots and if there is a problem can take measures to rectify it. Here's some photo's of germination tests on my Spudakee Purple and Golden Cherokee. Problems can occur in the mail delivery process as well as you can have a problem batch of seeds which did occur to me as an individual reported germination problems and I found a bad lot. I'm happy to say the Spudakee and Cherokee were OK as you can see by the pictures. This is what they looked like a week after I set them out. I use coffee filters and zip-lock bags to do my testing. Ami

[stormymater]

OK = stupid question - when you do the germination tests, are you "sacrificing" the seedlings that sprout? Are they usable for planting? If so, what does one do it?

[dice]

Sure, you could plant those. I just put some seed starting mix
in a small pot, pick up the sprouted seed with tweezers, drop
it on the top, and cover it with a thin coating of seed starting
mix. Then I set the pot in a little tub of water, and I spray it
from the top with a mix of 1 part peroxide to 10 parts water
(reduces damping-off problems).

If you want to be fancy, you can make a hole in the seed
starting mix about as deep as the root is long and carefully
lean the sprouted seed in there vertically, then fill the hole
with seed starting mix. The rest of the process is the same.
I usually find this unnecessary, though. Tomato seedlings
will quickly adapt to strange root orientations, with new roots
growing downward and the growing stem turning upward.
(Small scale version of trench planting.)

[clara]

As always, Ami, great pics! And YOUR seeds did germinate in my seedtrays, too! I'm absolutely satisfied, couldn't be better!
clara

[stormymater]

thanks Dice - good explanation & appreciate corollary logic...it flows man, it flows!

[Polar_Lace]

Originally Posted by dice

If you want to be fancy, you can make a hole in the seed starting mix about as deep as the root is long ....

That's what pencils are for!!

~* Robin

[habitat_gardener]

So if you do a germination test and want to plant the ones that have sprouted, how much time do you have? A week to 10 days? I'm asking because I don't get to my garden (a couple miles away) every day.

In other words, is there an optimal time to plant the sprouted seeds?

[Polar_Lace]

habitat_gardener,

You are supposed to check for germination every 2 days with seeds in a paper towel. If you see the seeds opening up, then check daily. The seedlings in the paper towel should be put into a cell pack: either 1inch or 2inch. Then get bigger to re-pot into a 4inch pot to grow more efficient roots for outdoor living conditions when they develop at least 4 sets (tiers) of true leaves.

They're usually kept inside because temps under 55 degrees could kill them _as fast as lightening_!

~* Robin

[amideutch]

OK, I know I'm going to hear moans and groans and the truth is, I threw them away. I'm pretty regemented in my seed growing and only use this sprouting technique to check germination. As dice has said, yes you can transplant these sprouts and they will grow into normal plants.
I just thought of something, I have a seed sprouter at home (for sprouting the type you eat) and it has four chambers that stack on one another with a lid for the top. I'll have to try it the next time I do a test and won't have to mess with the ziplocks or filters. Ami

[Polar_Lace]

Originally Posted by amideutch

>Snip<
I just thought of something, I have a seed sprouter at home (for sprouting the type you eat) and it has four chambers that stack on one another with a lid for the top. I'll have to try it the next time I do a test and won't have to mess with the ziplocks or filters. Ami

I've done that, works quite well, (for planting out seeds) green beans, peas, lima beans, runner beans, okra; well I've just tried nearly everyone. The temps stay very warm when you put up in the kitchen closet. I got interested in that theory almost as long as I've owned the one I bought from Johnny's seeds in 2000. Fenugreek tastes better sprouted, rather than brewed as a tea!

Oh! Tomato seeds and Alfalfa seeds are so small; the roots stick inside of those ridges that retain some of the water.

~* Robin

[amideutch]

Oh! Tomato seeds and Alfalfa seeds are so small; the roots stick inside of those ridges that retain some of the water..

Robin, I was thinking the same thing. Even on my coffee filters the roots grew through the seams of the filter. For germination testing it wouldn't make a difference, only for saving. Ami

[ContainerTed]

I'm the T'villian that Ami refers to above. I had noticed that the seeds sent from him were not coming up well. So, I alerted him that there might be a problem, but I didn't know what.

Ami immediately began a germination test and his pictures above show his results. I then decided to take a closer look at the seeds themselves. Last night, I sent Ami a Private Message, a portion of which follows

=========================================

As an old electronics repair type, along the way I picked up a microscope - the type used to do close pitch soldering. It's good for 60X and a bit more and has a mounted light.

This morning, I put some of my home saved seeds and those you sent to scrutiny. I know mine had been subject to a lot of TLC and used them as a bench mark. What I found with SOME of yours was what could only be cracked seed shell casings (probably picked up courtesy of one of our postal systems). My saved Cherokee Purple and Supersteak seeds did not display any of the cracks I saw on some of the seeds from three of the four you sent me. Golden Cherokee was worst, followed by Mystery Black and Spudakee. KBX seeds all appeared normal.

Now, I'm not a micro-biologist, but I've done enough close inspection under that scope to be absolutely positive that I am seeing cracks - cracks that were most likely introduced by a crushing type of pressure. A couple even showed the inner germplasm.

Your packaging on the envelope you sent was so good, that I figured the ones you sent were going to be the least likely to be postally abused.

==========================================

The envelope he sent me had a sheet of paper with a computer printout of my original Email requesting seeds and a thin layer of foam-sheeting (about as thick as a paper plate). The seed packets were nested inside the foam which was inside the paper - inside the business sized envelope.

From the beginning, I suspected "Postal Abuse"- maybe even from being x-ray'd into oblivion or otherwise subjected to large heat or cold temperature swings. When I looked carefully at the original ziplocks Ami sent the seeds in, I didn't see any obvious crunching with any kind of debris visible to the naked eye, but the damage was there.

BTW, I have Golden Cherokee seeds from two sources, both of which originated with Ami. In a trade with another individual, I received a "bonus" pack which contained some Golden Cherokee seeds, and that person told me the source. That group had been in the hands of the USPS at least twice and also showed seed damage. And that's where the old troubleshooter in me finds the prime suspect for the source of the damage.

I guess the lesson here is that no matter how good the products are at point of origin, they are at the mercy of the handling.

Hope this helps any others. The only solution I came up with for this season, is to plant enough to get a couple of seedlings. Not all of the seeds were damaged, just enough to cause major concern.

There's a lesson here for all of us.

I'm going to try to figure out a way of interfacing some kind of camera to the microscope. If I do, I'll post pictures of course.

Ted

[amideutch]

Ted, thanks for the post and update. From now on I'm going to send my seeds in small bubble wrap envelopes to preclude any reoccurrence of seed damage due to postal handling.
Also been looking at USB Digital Microscopes with several models under $100.00. The Carson MM-740 Zpix 200 I've seen for around $60.00 looks like it would fit the bill. Ami

[ContainerTed]

Hey, Ted. Mine is an older model Bausch & Lombe used primarily for inspection of electronics soldering. It has a circular flourescent bulb for lighting the subject and the view is thru the middle of this ring. I can make a small tomatillo seed look like it's the size of a baking potato and count the little "hairs" on any seed, but I can't take a picture with it ----YET. I'm thinking I might try to work with one of those small web-cams and see if I can get the focus. I may have to put my woodworking skills to use and build an interfacing mount of sorts to hold things steady.

Anyhow, I want you first to know how happy I am to have found those damaged seeds. I would also commend you for your complete and immediate concern for the recipients of your seeds. In my book, you're truly a "class act".

Take care.

The other Ted

[carolyn137]

About crushed seeds.

Since about 1990 I've sent out thousands upon thousands of seeds and only a day ago did someone say they thought that one variety in the #1 coin envelopes I used was crushed, aka, they didn't germinate.

I asked about all the other ones that I sent at the same time in the same envelope but haven't seen an answer yet.

So what I'm saying is the following.

When I send less than maybe 6 seed packs I use just a regular small business envelope and tape the seed packs to a folded over sheet of paper inside. If more than 6, up to 12 I use the larger size business envelope . And If it's an SSE request I enclose the request form as well.

For more seed packs than about 12. then I use a padded mailer.

So until I hear back from the person who said the seeds were crushed of that one variety, and I offered to send more seeds, thru all of these years there hasn't been one problem with crushed tomato seeds.

I used to list a lot of peppers in the SSE YEarbooks and those seeds were more fragile than the tomato seeds.

Many places/folks insist that padded mailers or including bubble wrap is necessary to protect the seeds. But that certainly hasn't been my experience and I know it hasn't been the experience of Craig either.

I bought a roll of bubble wrap at one time, and it's still sitting in the closet.

And I've sent seeds as I describe above all over the world for both SSE requests as well as for seed offers and to friends not associated with seed offers. For many years I was listing hundreds of tomato varieties in the SSE Yearbooks and it wouldn't be uncommon at that time to go thru 2-3 boxes of # 1 coin envelopes each year. There are 500 coin envelopes/box.

So I don't think that crushed seeds is a common problem.