Caging vs. Sprawling

[organichris]

This year I decided to let most of my plants sprawl, partly because I'm cheap and didn't want to buy cages and partly because I was interested in seeing what would happen. I'm curious like that.

I know that one of the major disadvantages to doing this is the greater use of space. And another is the possibility that fruit might rot on the ground. Neither of those are concerns for me. I allowed for a lot of space between plants, and I never water my plants so there isn't the constant splashing of wet dirt on the fruit. (If I really needed to water, I would but I wouldn't spray them with a water hose.) The surface of the ground remains relatively dry most of the time. I suppose there is still a remote possibility that rot may occur due to prolonged periods of rain, but I'm not worried about it. Plus after the branches touch the ground, they immediately reach upward toward the sun. So a good number of the tomatoes won't be that close to the ground anyway.

Here are what I have observed to be the advantages:

1) You don't have to buy cages, so you don't have to spend extra money.

2) More even distribution of light resulting better overall growth. Since the leaves aren't shading the plant, lateral branches that otherwise would not have been productive actually do produce tomatoes.

3) Greater airflow. Because the plants are not forced to grow unnaturally all caged up, they spread out and get better ventilation. This inhibits certain diseases, and may also result in better pollination(maybe).

I initially entertained this idea while reading that Carolyn (I think) suggested that someone grow cherries this way. I have some cherries growing like this too, but I actually think sprawling seems to be better for the bigger tomatoes than the cherries.

Any thoughts or experiences?

[carolyn137]

I initially entertained this idea while reading that Carolyn (I think) suggested that someone grow cherries this way. I have some cherries growing like this too, but I actually think sprawling seems to be better for the bigger tomatoes than the cherries.


****

Not just cherries but all varieties. About 90% of the about 2500 different varieties I've grown were grown by sprawling.

Sure I have slug damage from time to time, and possibly other critter problems, but since the spacing for sprawled plants is about the same as for caged plants, maybe a tad more, I can't see any advantage whatsoever to cage, or indeed stake tomato plants b'c the spacing for staked plants is also about the same as for at least caged plants and you usually prune to one or two leader stems with staked plants which automatically reduces fruit yeild.

Quite a sentence I just wrote, but I think you get my drift.

[PaulF]

I have often wondered about soil borne disease incurred by the sprawl method. We keep hearing about water splashing soil onto the leaves as a major culprit. I assume rain water splash would be similar to overhead watering splash. Drip or soaker hose watering reduces the problem so are the watering methods installed before the plants spread out?

I cage so there is air flow. If mine sprawled I would think there would be less air flow. Does a good mulching program keep the soil splash under control? And is the mulch put down early enough for good control?

I guess I don't have the type personality to allow my plants to sprawl. I like neat rows and spaces and everything in place so I can get around the plants and see what I harvest. Besides that, sometimes I don't or can't get around to getting the mulching done soon enough. And, if there isn't enough rainfall I can string the soaker hoses later in the season.

I am not condemning or defending, just asking. That is why there are so many ways to come to the same end..... tasty tomatoes and so many varieties to plant for the same reason.

[organichris]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

...Sure I have slug damage from time to time, and possibly other critter problems, but since the spacing for sprawled plants is about the same as for caged plants, maybe a tad more, I can't see any advantage whatsoever to cage, or indeed stake tomato plants b'c the spacing for staked plants is also about the same as for at least caged plants and you usually prune to one or two leader stems with staked plants which automatically reduces fruit yeild...

Yeah, and most of my plants have about four main stems that are equally dominant.

Another observation is that my non-caged plants seem to produce less leaves than most of the plants I see, including my own caged ones. I don't know whether sprawling has anything to do with that or not. It might possibly have something to do with the fact that I don't really fertilize and don't have any excess nitrogen in the soil. But that wouldn't account for the fact that my caged ones seem to have more leaves, and they haven't been fertilized either.

[Blueaussi]

Originally Posted by PaulF

so I can get around the plants and see what I harvest.

That.

When they sprawl, I can't get to the tomatoes or to the base of all the plants without a struggle.

[Barbee]

I always used to let the tomatoes sprawl. As for watering, I rarely have to water my tomatoes. We generally get an inch of water a week here throughout the summer.
The big deal for me was picking the tomatoes without stepping on the foliage. So now, I use cages. Plus I till the garden, so caging helps keep the foliage up out of the way.

[organichris]

Originally Posted by PaulF

...I cage so there is air flow. If mine sprawled I would think there would be less air flow...

I think you get better airflow with sprawling because the plant is able to spread out naturally rather than being well...incarcerated in a cage. When they are caged, they are forced to grow in a more confined space, hence less air flow.

I definitely see the advantages of cages, particularly if you like to keep things organized. And I do think that you could have a hard time harvesting. I really have to search for my tomatoes, and I can forsee losing some of them. If you till or mulch after your plants are in the ground, you wouldn't want to let them sprawl.

[Frog]

Well in 'The Seeds of Kokopelli: A manual for the production of seeds in the family garden: A directory of heritage seeds' by Dominique Guillet, there is written, though translated from French so excuse the sometimes funny phraseology, this:


Pruning tomatoes - a myth with a thick skin!


The various methods of pruning that we have just rehearsed are the result of practical orthodoxy, which has been systematically regurgitated over the years by endless gardening manuals, technical manuals, and seed catalogues. All these methods are repeated by people who have perhaps never grown tomatoes other than in a world of virtual reality.


We always have this vision in mind of an elderly gardener who has just finished a year's training in an arboretum in the department of Allier before taking up employment in our Botanical Garden de la Mhotte. One day we entrusted to him the care of the tomato garden and when we returned that evening all was 'clean': he had removed every leaf from every plant and all that remained were the fruits 'so that the could more speedily ripen'!


We had many, many tomatoes in our gardens, as many as 15,000 plants in 1998. We had to devote a lot of time to social re-integration, but had little left for the foliar disintegration of our tomatoes! Anyway, as a result of this experience, we are able to avow that the pruning of tomatoes is a myth, as much as the so-called hyper-super-productivity of modern F1 hybrids or genetically modified produce with the genes of a pig!


The pruning of tomatoes makes us sad, very sad. Is there an example of any other vegetable plant in our gardens that we massacre with such aplomb? And why not treat the pruned tomato plant with clay balm as we do with apple trees? But no, the gardener is there, beaming with pleasure at the efficiency of his secateurs attack upon the 'suckers'.


At the various shows and fairs we attend we preach the art of not pruning tomatoes each time we are asked the solution to the problem of blight and mildew. We have had gardeners reduced to impotent rage at the suggestion that pruning is perhaps not the best solution to combat these ills.


Yet we have very good evidence from the areas just north of the Loire that plants left unpruned and with the appropriate organic treatment were able to resist a wave of blight whereas in the same area plants that had been pruned (and had had the same treatment) succumbed to the disease.


In the South of France we have seen pruned plants with the classic pruning of suckers and other foliage where the fruits were completely burned by the sun.


The largest fruit we ever grew, a 'Japanese Oxheart' weighing 1.4kg was grown on an unpruned, unsupported plant.


One of our professional seed producers in the South-West of France, at an altitude of 500 metres, harvested 15kg per plant with the variety 'Burbank', where the plants were left to wander, unpruned and unsupported other than by the stones in the field. Who can pretend an F1 hybrid can be more productive?


We have already spoken of the very great experience of Carolyn Male, who has grown more than 1300 varieties of tomato and who is an expert in ancient varieties and has written about them in her book '100 Heirloom Tomatoes for the American Garden' . She is vehemently opposed to any kind of pruning. For her, the more abundant the foliage, the more plant is able to photosynthesise and to grow in harmony. If your wish is to produce large fruit then all you need to do is reduce to two fruits per stem, just removing the excess fruits, but not the leaves.


A management of your plants in this manner of course requires that they be given more space. Depending upon the variety, you will perhaps need to space the plants at 1.5m. The health of the plants will in any event be better because they have the space to breath.


The objection often raised to this system is that the unpruned plant, with its large spacing, will inevitably require more energy from the soil in order to develop all its fruit to maturity. Will a plant, which grows at its leisure on 1.5m, take up more energy than three pruned plants jammed into 50cm each? Applying rational maths, that cannot be the case. Applying cosmic maths, we dare say that the single plant on 1.5m will take up very much less energy than the three sad plants packed together on the same space. The single plant will be completely unstressed and will develop at its own proper rhythm.


Recently we went surfing the website of the University of Davis in California, the most prestigious of the American universities so far as the study of tomato plants is concerned, having carried out research for dozens of years. We consulted the heading 'Family garden'. Surprise, surprise: the official science has changed its credo, at least in part. Here is something to reassure those of our gardening friends who listen to the preaching of Orthodox agronomy, if such still exists after the recent debacles of modern agriculture.


Here is the advice we have gleaned from this source (true to say, at the end of the usual 'classical' advice as fearsome and regular pruning of suckers):


'The growing of tomatoes in cages is becoming more and more popular thanks to the simplicity of this method. Soon after the plants have become established place a cylindrical cage of between 45cm and 75cm in diameter and 90cm to 1.5m in height around the plant. This method is particularly well suited to varsities of indeterminate growth. Growing the plant in a cage allows it to grow in a totally natural manner but at the same time protecting the fruit and leaves being damaged on the ground.


The technique offers in this respect the same advantages as taking. The use of these cages requires a certain financial outlay and also takes up storage space but many gardeners that these costs are well worth while in order to free themselves from the tasks of pruning and staking. Provided the cages are of good quality they will last for years. Take care to choose only steel mesh cages with squares a minimum of 15cm across, so you can still harvest the fruits through the mesh. If despite using this method you feel the need to prune you can reduce the plant to three or four main stems.


The plants that re raised in cages develop an abundance of foliage thus reducing and sun damage to the fruits. Plants grown in cages are less susceptible to the diseases, which are usually due to the handling and damage to the plant, because they do not suffer the open wound and the frequent handling of plants that have been staked and pruned. You should, however, give the plants more space (at least 1m), so as to allow a good circulation of air around the plants. The abundant foliage does conserve the moisture but the mildews at the end of the season do tend to develop more rapidly in such conditions. When, however, they are well nourished and well cared for, tomato plants grown in cages produce quite exceptional harvests, in exchange for the extra space granted them.'


The cage be replaced by some wooden structure, in the form of a ladder, a pyramid, tipi or a fan.


Let us pray that all the 'doubting thomases' of the tomato, can create a new reality, a reality of confidence and faith in the tomato plant to harmoniously exist with its gardener. And very truly, we could just ask to our tomato plants to develop healthily, harmoniously and simply do their best...




No idea as to the veracity of all contained, just thought you might find it interesting.... boy that took some typing out.

[BigdaddyJ]

I have caged and I have sprawled. I lose half my toms to slugs, snails, rats, voles, mice pillbugs and rot when I sprawl. They are also harder to see and pick. I much prefer caging.

[Frog]

Pillbugs have been a particular issue when I sprawl, our pillbugs here are rampant, they're everywhere and are the size of a mature broad/fava bean. You see a stunning and huge beefsteak on the floor, but when you pick it up you find it has a huge hole in the back full of the beggars. My impression, though, is that they move in on slug damage, rather than instigate the damage. Very localised, these mega pillbugs, at my old house 10 miles away, you never saw any.

Supporting the trusses with a short Y shaped stick, just to lift them a little of the ground, improves things somewhat.

[tahmato]

I sprawl my tomatos
I am lazy
i heavy mulch with straw and they seem to do fine.
Yes it is more back breaking but so is staking IMHO but i have two 6 yr olds to do the short work LOL
we have big winds here and no matter what kind of stake contraption i try , i get broken branches and dropped tomatos and the deer don't seem to rip out the plants as much as when i staked them ? its as if they say " well there on the ground already so why hassle yanking them out ?
cherrys i will stake . those are just easier and i use the cheapo metal cages from a
store . So not much work there.
i really think its better for the larger tomatos too. They don't seem to break off.
i m not an expert
but i know that Carolyn lets hers sprawl and so i let my too.
it works

[WH_Conley]

I have good luck staking, I can find the fruit easier. Course I make several thousand tomato stakes each year, pretty easy to divert a few to my garden.

[carolyn137]

Good grief, Dominique is quoting me in that above snippet about pruning.

He sent me one of the first copies of his book after it was translated into English and that's the first time I saw that he kinda lifted many sections from my book. Not a problem, really.

That sure was a surprise as well.

Last I knew he was in CA, but I haven't had contact with him for quite a few years.

Yes, I AM opposed to vigorous pruning for the reasons he qouted on; more foliage, more photosynthesis, more energy production, greater growth and fruit maturation and greater synthesis of the compnents that go int taste, and less sunscald as well.

The natural habitat for tomatoes in the wild is sprawling. No stakes, cages, trellises, etc.

Paul, I think it was you who asked about diseases and sprawled plants. The soil dwelling systemic diseases have to infect through the roots and those pathogens are going to be there anyway, if they're in your garden plot.

it's mostly the spores and bacteria from the foliage diseases that can be shed and then cause backsplah infection. I used no mulch at all, but Charlie my farmer friend would completely turn over the soil in the Fall, plant winter rye in my field and then plow that under again in the Spring.

That way you bury those pathogens so they can't spashback, if you're worried about that.

And it doesn't matter how you grow your tomatoes b/c if they get foliage diseases, which has nothing to do with how plants are grown, then they get foliage diseases. Period.

[organichris]

Originally Posted by Frog

No idea as to the veracity of all contained, just thought you might find it interesting.... boy that took some typing out.

Wow! Thanks, Frog. That was very interesting.

I am definitely not one to force some kind of gardening orthodoxy, and actually think there are a number different ways to grow tomatoes successfully. With respect to pruning, I would definitely recommend this thread:

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...xtreme+pruning

I started it, so it may seem that I'm tooting my own horn, but the most valuable stuff in there are video links to Chuck Bartok's pruning methods. You can find them on YouTube too. Chuck uses some very extreme pruning methods, with some extremely excellent results. The videos are progressive, charting his progress over the growing season. If you've never seen anything like this, you are going to be surprised - perhaps shocked.

[TomatoDon]

Sprawling has been mentioned here at T'Ville before and I always wanted to try it, since it seems to work well for others. However, I think the success is partly, if not all, determined by the climate and location.

I'm about 80 miles south of Memphis, the deep Mid-South. Lots of heat, humidity, bugs, and so on. I had said I'd like to try the sprawl method on raised beds, such as a raised row with ground cloth and/or hay on top for better drainage and air circulation. This year I tried it in conventional raised beds.

I planted several tomatoes in some of my raised beds, 12 X 5 feet dimenions. Some beds had heavy grade paper as the weed barrier, with wheat straw on top, and some had black commercial grade ground cloth with wheat straw on top. Every tomato I planted this way WITHOUT the cage, was a miserable failure. They grew a little, but when the weight was enough at about 12-18 inches, they drooped over and just sprawled, or laid on the mulch, with very little growth. It was like they stunted at that point, and didnt' do much of anything else. Basically, they stayed about the same size, developed very few blooms and/or fruit. They were laying (sprawling) on well drained "material" and had everything the surrounding plants had. The others, next to them, grew normally, grew "up" in their cages, thrived, blossomed, and put on plenty of fruit. Many outgrew their cages while the "sprawlers" a few feet away did nothing, even though they were planted at the same time, or without a very few days of each other.

I just don't see anyone in my area using the sprawl method intentionally, or with any kind of success. Even if you see a field with 5,000 tomatoes in it, they are staked, or the grower uses the Florida weave method. Down through the years I'm sure that millions of tomato plants have been planted and left alone for one reason or another, and sprawled naturally. If any significant trait for production for this method had resulted, people would have tried the sprawl method on purpose, and still be using it. Yet I've never seen it done as a planned and purposeful way to grow tomatoes here. I have not seen one example of it working in my area, which I would include to be the whole gulf south states area. If it exists successfully in this region, I have not seen or, nor heard about it.

I tried it. I gave it a more than fair and reasonable effort. Still, no luck.

DS

I need to make one obvious edit here. This was written concerning Indets. The bush varieties have done well. But their growth habit doesn't qualify as "sprawling."