Green Doctors skin colour

dokutaaguriin · August 31, 2009

I have attached two photos of fully ripe Green Doctors, one from last year and this year's crop.
Has anyone else experienced this difference in colour?

Jeff

goodwin · August 31, 2009

There may be two strains. Was this year's crop from saved seed from the previous year? On three of my plants I have fruit that turns slightly amber, and, on the fourth, the fruit is clear green when ripe. It's the skin color that makes the difference. The greener fruit is larger, a little sweeter, and perhaps a bit more prone to cracking after a rain in my experience. I'm planning to save seed from both types. I'd guess is the yellow skin is dominant over the clear skin, but someone here probably knows the whole story.
Lee

farmall · August 31, 2009

If the fruit is shaded out more by the plant it can make a difference in the color of the tomato. Making it look more like the first picture.

**carolyn137** · August 31, 2009

I'm not aware of two strains.

Green Doctors was a spontaneous mutation of the variety Dr. Carolyn and the variety Dr, Carolyn was derived from the variety Galina's Yellow, and all three have a yellow epidermis.

All those who list this variety in the 2009 SSE YEarbook who mention color all say that the fruits have an amber blush, thus a yellow epidermis.

I've grown one green when ripe variety with a clear epidermis called Verde Claro that I trialed for Tom Wagner quite a few years ago and such fruits never form an amber blush and actually look whitish/greenish like frosted grapes.

Jeff and Lee, did you check the epidermis color on the fruits with an amber blush vs the ones that had no blush? I ask only b'c you didn't say you had.

And were ALL fruits the same on the plants that had amber fruits as well as the plants that had non-amber fruits?

And Jeff and Lee, what was the original source of your seeds?

And if it turns out that there;s a clear epidermis on the non-amber ones, please save seeds and I'm first in line since my namesake variety is involved with this variety and the variety name also refers to me and someone else.

Would it surprise me if there had been an epidermis mutation? Not at all considering the initial instability of the variety Dr. Carolyn and how that was derived by me from Galina's Yellow, a deep gold PL cherry.

And if it does turn out to be a clear epidermis GW Ripe lets discuss what it might be called.

dokutaaguriin · September 1, 2009

HI Carolyn,

I've grown one green when ripe variety with a clear epidermis called Verde Claro that I trialed for Tom Wagner quite a few years ago and such fruits never form an amber blush and actually look whitish/greenish like frosted grapes.

I was thinking the same thing when they started to split and then I knew they were ready....Iced Green Doctors, lol.

Jeff and Lee, did you check the epidermis color on the fruits with an amber blush vs the ones that had no blush? I ask only b'c you didn't say you had.
I did not check the epidermis colour of the fruits last year. I will check the epidermis of this season's crop- please see the attached photos. Looks clear to me

And were ALL fruits the same on the plants that had amber fruits as well as the plants that had non-amber fruits?
Yes, last year's plants produced all amber fruits. This year the plant is producing only non-amber fruits.

And Jeff and Lee, what was the original source of your seeds?
My original source for the seeds was you (NY MAC 07). I am pretty sure that I used my saved seeds from last year.

And if it turns out that there;s a clear epidermis on the non-amber ones, please save seeds and I'm first in line since my namesake variety is involved with this variety and the variety name also refers to me and someone else.
I have some fermenting right now.
As a side note, the flavour last year was sweet lime. The non-amber fruit from this year taste more like a sweet melon.

And if it does turn out to be a clear epidermis GW Ripe lets discuss what it might be called.

Jeff

velikipop · September 1, 2009

Jeff,

Mine, grown from your seed, are amber, like the ones from your 08 picture.

Alex

**carolyn137** · September 1, 2009

And Jeff and Lee, what was the original source of your seeds?
My original source for the seeds was you (NY MAC 07). I am pretty sure that I used my saved seeds from last year.

*****

Jeff, I never saved my own seeds of Green Doctors. And I don't think I ever offered seeds in a seed offer here b/c I had so few but I didn't double check, nor did I list it in the SSE Yearbook, and I don't remember the names of those few folks I might have sent seeds to, but any seeds I did send out were from Amy Goldman, who finally did send me some after I asked twice since she had named the variety for herself and me and b'c it was a mutation from the variety Dr. Carolyn.

I grew it once from Amy's seeds and it had an amber blush.

Darn, it was 42F here this AM and the baseboard heat came on in several rooms at the default setting. I will NOT turn on the main heat yet, I will NOT. My poor poor tomato plants out there, I feel for them, well actually I'd like to feel them, in my hand, but that's looking less likely with every passing day.

dokutaaguriin · September 1, 2009

Hi Carolyn,
Here is the thread where you offered me some seeds:
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...=green+doctors
I guess they were Amy's seeds originally.

Do we have a skin mutation occurring with this tomato?
Jeff

**carolyn137** · September 1, 2009

Jeff, I forgot to say that you can't tell the epidermis color just with a cut section. You need to peel off a bit of the very thin membrane, the epidermis, from the surface of the fruit.

Do that with your fruits and also with a pink and a red tomato fruit and then hold them up to the light to tell the color and compare.

The red tomato will have a yellow epidermis, the pink will have a clear one, the GD with amber blush should have a yellow one and the ones that have no amber blush should have a clear epidermis.

Also, the color of the epidermis will not change the taste of a fruit, just the color of the fruit.

travis · September 1, 2009

You might try taking a photo of the skin with white background. The skin shown in post #5 might look a bit yellow due to the background being tan.

Interesting development if the skin truly is clear.

**carolyn137** · September 1, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dokutaaguriin

Hi Carolyn,
Here is the thread where you offered me some seeds:
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...=green+doctors
I guess they were Amy's seeds originally.

Do we have a skin mutation occurring with this tomato?
Jeff

Now, I remember. It was a knee jerk response on my part to send you those seeds b'c I knew I didn't list them in the seed offer, and yes, those are Amy's seeds she sent to me b'c as I said above, I didn't save any.

Travis, I'm not sure it's an epidermis mutation until Jeff and Lee tear off small bits of that thin epidermal membrane and compare it with the colored fruits I suggested in my above post.

travis · September 1, 2009

That's what he did in post #5 but I can't tell if the skin is clear or yellow due to the background color of the table or table mat.

mjc · September 1, 2009

I thought that there was somewhat of a yellow cast to the whole pic...like it was with the wrong light setting on the camera (incandescent/fluorescent or inside/outside settings flipped) or something.

What about using a sheet of printer paper as a backdrop?

**carolyn137** · September 1, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

That's what he did in post #5 but I can't tell if the skin is clear or yellow due to the background color of the table or table mat.

My error b'c I only looked at the first picture, but I went back and looked again and it does like a yellow cast to the epidermis and the outside of the fruits in the picture also had a yellow cast, so I'm not sure where we're at at this point if those fruits were supposed to be the ones with no amber blush and clear skin such as the Verde Claro I mentioned.

goodwin · September 1, 2009

Here is a photo of mine taken today. The set on the right is the fruit in question and you can see the epidermis has a faint yellow cast, so it is not clear - as I had thought.
Lee

August 31, 2009	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I'm not aware of two strains. Green Doctors was a spontaneous mutation of the variety Dr. Carolyn and the variety Dr, Carolyn was derived from the variety Galina's Yellow, and all three have a yellow epidermis. All those who list this variety in the 2009 SSE YEarbook who mention color all say that the fruits have an amber blush, thus a yellow epidermis. I've grown one green when ripe variety with a clear epidermis called Verde Claro that I trialed for Tom Wagner quite a few years ago and such fruits never form an amber blush and actually look whitish/greenish like frosted grapes. Jeff and Lee, did you check the epidermis color on the fruits with an amber blush vs the ones that had no blush? I ask only b'c you didn't say you had. And were ALL fruits the same on the plants that had amber fruits as well as the plants that had non-amber fruits? And Jeff and Lee, what was the original source of your seeds? And if it turns out that there;s a clear epidermis on the non-amber ones, please save seeds and I'm first in line since my namesake variety is involved with this variety and the variety name also refers to me and someone else. Would it surprise me if there had been an epidermis mutation? Not at all considering the initial instability of the variety Dr. Carolyn and how that was derived by me from Galina's Yellow, a deep gold PL cherry. And if it does turn out to be a clear epidermis GW Ripe lets discuss what it might be called. __________________ Carolyn

September 1, 2009	#6
velikipop Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Langley, BC Posts: 768	Jeff, Mine, grown from your seed, are amber, like the ones from your 08 picture. Alex __________________ I'll plant and I'll harvest what the earth brings forth The hammer's on the table, the pitchfork's on the shelf Bob Dylan

September 1, 2009	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	And Jeff and Lee, what was the original source of your seeds? My original source for the seeds was you (NY MAC 07). I am pretty sure that I used my saved seeds from last year. ***** Jeff, I never saved my own seeds of Green Doctors. And I don't think I ever offered seeds in a seed offer here b/c I had so few but I didn't double check, nor did I list it in the SSE Yearbook, and I don't remember the names of those few folks I might have sent seeds to, but any seeds I did send out were from Amy Goldman, who finally did send me some after I asked twice since she had named the variety for herself and me and b'c it was a mutation from the variety Dr. Carolyn. I grew it once from Amy's seeds and it had an amber blush. Darn, it was 42F here this AM and the baseboard heat came on in several rooms at the default setting. I will NOT turn on the main heat yet, I will NOT. My poor poor tomato plants out there, I feel for them, well actually I'd like to feel them, in my hand, but that's looking less likely with every passing day. __________________ Carolyn

September 1, 2009	#9
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Jeff, I forgot to say that you can't tell the epidermis color just with a cut section. You need to peel off a bit of the very thin membrane, the epidermis, from the surface of the fruit. Do that with your fruits and also with a pink and a red tomato fruit and then hold them up to the light to tell the color and compare. The red tomato will have a yellow epidermis, the pink will have a clear one, the GD with amber blush should have a yellow one and the ones that have no amber blush should have a clear epidermis. Also, the color of the epidermis will not change the taste of a fruit, just the color of the fruit. __________________ Carolyn

August 31, 2009	#2
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 608	There may be two strains. Was this year's crop from saved seed from the previous year? On three of my plants I have fruit that turns slightly amber, and, on the fourth, the fruit is clear green when ripe. It's the skin color that makes the difference. The greener fruit is larger, a little sweeter, and perhaps a bit more prone to cracking after a rain in my experience. I'm planning to save seed from both types. I'd guess is the yellow skin is dominant over the clear skin, but someone here probably knows the whole story. Lee

August 31, 2009	#3
farmall Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 64	If the fruit is shaded out more by the plant it can make a difference in the color of the tomato. Making it look more like the first picture.

September 1, 2009	#8
dokutaaguriin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Z3a Posts: 905	Hi Carolyn, Here is the thread where you offered me some seeds: http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...=green+doctors I guess they were Amy's seeds originally. Do we have a skin mutation occurring with this tomato? Jeff

September 1, 2009	#10
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	You might try taking a photo of the skin with white background. The skin shown in post #5 might look a bit yellow due to the background being tan. Interesting development if the skin truly is clear.

September 1, 2009	#13
mjc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: WV Posts: 603	I thought that there was somewhat of a yellow cast to the whole pic...like it was with the wrong light setting on the camera (incandescent/fluorescent or inside/outside settings flipped) or something. What about using a sheet of printer paper as a backdrop?