Compost Tea & mite control.

beeman · September 1, 2009

As a newbie to the forum i would request you deal with me lightly, until I learn the ropes.
I originally posted this to the "General discussion" but was politely told to post it here.
Reading through past posts regarding disease, I note that mites spread the problem of disease to healthy plants, and that destruction was the only method of control. This year I am actively spraying Activated Compost Tea and find no mite problems. Usually my garden suffers with mites and thrips on Radishes and brassicas whose leaves are peppered with holes, but not this year!
Might I suggest that Compost Tea is worthy of investigation as a disease control. It might just avoid those sickening 'pull ups'.

Blueaussi · September 2, 2009

Can you be a little more specific about your Activated Compost Tea? As in, is this something you're making and if so, how. If it's a commercial product, can you post some information about it? And where did you get the idea to use it for mites? you know, unpack it a little bit because it sounds interesting.

beeman · September 3, 2009

I thought everybody knew about Activated Compost Tea.
I started earlier this year brewing my own, using a 5 gallon pail, three aquarium air stones, and an aquarium pump. Add approx 1 lbs of well worked, heat treated compost, plus the same amount of worm castings.
Fill the pail with 'clean' water, beware of Chlorine, add 1tbs molasses per gallon and bubble for 24-36 hours.
This dislodges the bacteria and fungi into the water, off the compost, a bacterial bloom takes place. Spray onto plants, up to two hours after brewing, will set up good fungi bacterial sites on the foliage and prevent the 'nasties' getting a hold, initially on a two week cycle.
It can be used as a drench to improve the bacteria in the soil, leading to better overall crops and plants, diluted it goes a long way.
This is my first year and my garden is 100% better. Still has some problems, but cutting out the insect problems are a big step. No caterpillars, no thrips, no aphids.
I found aphids in the morning, sprayed, by evening, all gone!
If you use Actinovate, then add it to the brew after brewing, not before.

Blueaussi · September 3, 2009

Spraying aphids is a good way to knock them back temporarily, too.

Ok, I know about compost tea, but with your capitalization, I thought perhaps it was a commercial product. Compost tea is certainly a good soil drench. I've had the aeration debate on other forums, too.

However, I think you are the first person I've come across to talk about using it to prevent insect and pathogen problems by spraying it on the plant. I'm still curious about where you got the information, or else what moved you to start spraying the plants with a compost tea. I have a little bit of trouble accepting that sprayed bacteria and fungi prevent other bacteria and fungi from getting on the plant. I think it's an intriguing idea, but I would like more information.

beeman · September 3, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

Spraying aphids is a good way to knock them back temporarily, too.
However, I think you are the first person I've come across to talk about using it to prevent insect and pathogen problems by spraying it on the plant. I'm still curious about where you got the information, or else what moved you to start spraying the plants with a compost tea. I have a little bit of trouble accepting that sprayed bacteria and fungi prevent other bacteria and fungi from getting on the plant. I think it's an intriguing idea, but I would like more information.

I first got the information from http://thegardenforums.org a general gardening forum. They directed me to http://www.soilfoodweb.com then finally to the Yahoo groups http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/
I admit I was also a sceptic, but if you do some research you'll see it's a very compelling argument for change away from chemicals.
As to the aphids, they didn't come back, neither did the thrips or caterpillars!

Blueaussi · September 3, 2009

Well, none of those folks are shy about asking you to buy stuff, are they? I'm sorry, but I prefer my information not come from people trying to sell me stuff.

I already don't use pesticides and am very careful of any fertilizers or additives. I compost and till that in, and use earthworm compost without that silly aerator stuff.

As I mentioned, just the physical act of squirting plants knocks aphids and other small pests off the plants, and I swear by ladybugs. I also adore all the little tree frogs, toads, and anolis lizards that stalk the bad buggies. That's the food web I'm going to encourage!

beeman · September 4, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

Well, none of those folks are shy about asking you to buy stuff, are they? I'm sorry, but I prefer my information not come from people trying to sell me stuff.

The saying "Horses for courses" will certainly apply in this case.
Nobody is trying to sell you anything, but you wish to misconstrue what is written??
If you don't want to listen then that's not my problem.
"Sceptics of the world unite, then we can live forever in the dark ages".

creister · September 4, 2009

Mites and other insects usually attack plants that are unhealthy, much like wolves usually eat the sick/old first. Compost teas used as foilar sprays and soil drenches, usually help plants stay healthy, thus the reduction of pests.

Blueaussi · September 4, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman

Nobody is trying to sell you anything, but you wish to misconstrue what is written??

What did I misconstrue? The first link was to a gardening forum that Web Of Trust gives a dangerous rating. The second is to a company that wants you to pay them to test your soil, or pay to go to a seminar, or you can call them and pay for a $100/hour consult. The third link is to a Yahoo group that links you back to the second site.

Quote:

If you don't want to listen then that's not my problem.

Well, but, to listen I would have to pay to buy one of the many cd's offered on the second site put out by the woman that I could also pay to see at one of her seminars. Or, if I didn't want to listen, I could pay to read one of the many books she just happened to have authored and is selling on the second web site.

When I went through the papers listed on the second web site, none of them appeared to be about spraying plants with compost tea to prevent insect infestations or infection by plant pathogens. Perhaps you could link me directly to that information when you get over your snit. That's the information I'm interested in reading.

Quote:

"Sceptics of the world unite, then we can live forever in the dark ages".

Well, dang. Now I'm going to have to find a new irony meter.

beeman · September 4, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

What did I misconstrue? The first link was to a gardening forum that Web Of Trust gives a dangerous rating.

You obviously need to be fed all the information.
This "Activated Compost Tea" covers massive amounts of information on the web.
If you are really interested then do a Google for 'Activated Compost Tea' , will give you plenty to read.
As to the Web of Trust, How can a forum be untrustworthy?

Anyway just so I can move on, try this one and 'read'.
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/03_about_us/approach.html the article deals with all aspects of the soil. compost tea and it's uses. If you don't find it interesting, then I can't help you.

PS. I didn't have a snit.Just cannot stand a put down just for the sake of it, it achieves absolutely nothing.

dice · September 5, 2009

Caveats:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...CompostTea.pdf

Good description of differences between compost teas and
compost extracts:
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html

(My experience: foliar feeding with it had no benefit that I
noticed, but plants reacted well to a soil drench with it.)

beeman · September 5, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

(My experience: foliar feeding with it had no benefit that I
noticed, but plants reacted well to a soil drench with it.)

I read your original post regarding your use of ACT. I noticed two points which could create a problem with foliar feeding.
First, you brewed it for 3-4 days? The recommended brew times are normally 24 -36 hours, it's very possible the food was used up and the bacteria died off.
Second. I couldn't believe the stuff you added. Everything but the kitchen sink

My experience, this year, it does suppress insects, caterpillars, fungus gnats, aphids, leaf rollers, some disease, powdery mildew, apple scab, aids the general well being of all the plants I used it on. I still have problems, in particular root nematodes, but even here it holds promise.
I for one will continue to use it, regardless what the academics say.

dice · September 5, 2009

I was not having much in the way of insect problems on the
foliage, so I would not have noticed any control of that from
using compost tea. The one foliage problem that my plants
typically get is botrytis (gray mold) in rainy weather, and
perhaps some Early Blight, and those had not set in when
I used the compost tea for a foliar spray. I was looking at
it more as a plant food (hence the addition of handfuls of
alfalfa, kelp meal, earthworm castings, a little humic acid,
and so on). The plants did not put on any growth spurt after
spraying with it (like they occasionally would from a spray
with 1/4 strength Miracle Gro or something like that), and
the loss of the occasional leaf here and there seemed to
actually increase after using it.

Their growth did accelerate when I used it as a soil drench,
however (probably more bacteria and fungi making mineral
and organic nutrients in the soil available to the roots faster).

Composts are not going to be the same from one batch of
compost to another. Compost that I make in the Pacific
Northwest in the US from grass clippings, shredded birch
leaves, horse manure, and kitchen scraps is not going to be
the same as what someone makes in another part of the
world out of moldy hay, chicken manure, oak leaves, and
coffee grounds, or out of commercial wood waste and cow
manure, or whatever. Their microbial populations are likely
to be dominated by different local bacteria and fungi. This
can happen even with the same feedstocks in the same place
if average moisture levels, how often the piles are turned,
how big they are, and so on are different.

That makes it tough to pin down a definite "this works" or
"this does not work" for compost tea as an organic pesticide
or fungicide in scientific research, because tea made from one
batch of compost may show definite results while tea made
from another batch of compost made down the road may not.
It ends up being a "try it and see if tea made from your own
compost works to control the specific problems that chronically
afflict your plants in your garden" solution.

For enhancing the health and fertility of the soil around
the roots, almost any compost seems to work as a soil
amendment, and the same is probably true for a soil drench
with compost tea (the exact compost that you used to make
it probably does not matter as much as it might when using
it as a pest or disease control).

beeman · September 6, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

I was not having much in the way of insect problems on the
foliage, so I would not have noticed any control of that from
using compost tea.

Perhaps the next time you have an infestation you could try it again, but made in the recommended fashion, then you could report your findings again.
I do agree that it's perceived goodness is highly dependant on the quality of your 'finished' compost.
Another area often missed, a total clean up of all equipment used. I found even the air stones developed a bio film which prevents a decent build up of both fungi and bacteria.

dice · September 6, 2009

Quote:

I found even the air stones developed a bio film which prevents a decent build up of both fungi and bacteria.

I use one of these for aeration:
http://www.marinedepot.com/air_pumps...ffuser-ap.html
(The 12" one is kind of short. The 24" and 36" work better
coiled in the bottom of a 5-gallon bucket.)

September 1, 2009	#1
beeman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 692	Compost Tea & mite control. As a newbie to the forum i would request you deal with me lightly, until I learn the ropes. I originally posted this to the "General discussion" but was politely told to post it here. Reading through past posts regarding disease, I note that mites spread the problem of disease to healthy plants, and that destruction was the only method of control. This year I am actively spraying Activated Compost Tea and find no mite problems. Usually my garden suffers with mites and thrips on Radishes and brassicas whose leaves are peppered with holes, but not this year! Might I suggest that Compost Tea is worthy of investigation as a disease control. It might just avoid those sickening 'pull ups'.

September 2, 2009	#2
Blueaussi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Zone 8a Posts: 1,205	Can you be a little more specific about your Activated Compost Tea? As in, is this something you're making and if so, how. If it's a commercial product, can you post some information about it? And where did you get the idea to use it for mites? you know, unpack it a little bit because it sounds interesting. Last edited by Blueaussi; September 2, 2009 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Bleh! More Caffeine!

September 5, 2009	#11
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Caveats: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...CompostTea.pdf Good description of differences between compost teas and compost extracts: http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html (My experience: foliar feeding with it had no benefit that I noticed, but plants reacted well to a soil drench with it.) __________________ -- alias

September 5, 2009	#13
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I was not having much in the way of insect problems on the foliage, so I would not have noticed any control of that from using compost tea. The one foliage problem that my plants typically get is botrytis (gray mold) in rainy weather, and perhaps some Early Blight, and those had not set in when I used the compost tea for a foliar spray. I was looking at it more as a plant food (hence the addition of handfuls of alfalfa, kelp meal, earthworm castings, a little humic acid, and so on). The plants did not put on any growth spurt after spraying with it (like they occasionally would from a spray with 1/4 strength Miracle Gro or something like that), and the loss of the occasional leaf here and there seemed to actually increase after using it. Their growth did accelerate when I used it as a soil drench, however (probably more bacteria and fungi making mineral and organic nutrients in the soil available to the roots faster). Composts are not going to be the same from one batch of compost to another. Compost that I make in the Pacific Northwest in the US from grass clippings, shredded birch leaves, horse manure, and kitchen scraps is not going to be the same as what someone makes in another part of the world out of moldy hay, chicken manure, oak leaves, and coffee grounds, or out of commercial wood waste and cow manure, or whatever. Their microbial populations are likely to be dominated by different local bacteria and fungi. This can happen even with the same feedstocks in the same place if average moisture levels, how often the piles are turned, how big they are, and so on are different. That makes it tough to pin down a definite "this works" or "this does not work" for compost tea as an organic pesticide or fungicide in scientific research, because tea made from one batch of compost may show definite results while tea made from another batch of compost made down the road may not. It ends up being a "try it and see if tea made from your own compost works to control the specific problems that chronically afflict your plants in your garden" solution. For enhancing the health and fertility of the soil around the roots, almost any compost seems to work as a soil amendment, and the same is probably true for a soil drench with compost tea (the exact compost that you used to make it probably does not matter as much as it might when using it as a pest or disease control). __________________ -- alias

September 3, 2009	#3
beeman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 692	I thought everybody knew about Activated Compost Tea. I started earlier this year brewing my own, using a 5 gallon pail, three aquarium air stones, and an aquarium pump. Add approx 1 lbs of well worked, heat treated compost, plus the same amount of worm castings. Fill the pail with 'clean' water, beware of Chlorine, add 1tbs molasses per gallon and bubble for 24-36 hours. This dislodges the bacteria and fungi into the water, off the compost, a bacterial bloom takes place. Spray onto plants, up to two hours after brewing, will set up good fungi bacterial sites on the foliage and prevent the 'nasties' getting a hold, initially on a two week cycle. It can be used as a drench to improve the bacteria in the soil, leading to better overall crops and plants, diluted it goes a long way. This is my first year and my garden is 100% better. Still has some problems, but cutting out the insect problems are a big step. No caterpillars, no thrips, no aphids. I found aphids in the morning, sprayed, by evening, all gone! If you use Actinovate, then add it to the brew after brewing, not before.

September 4, 2009	#8
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	Mites and other insects usually attack plants that are unhealthy, much like wolves usually eat the sick/old first. Compost teas used as foilar sprays and soil drenches, usually help plants stay healthy, thus the reduction of pests.