O.P. varieties the plant buying consumer wants

[PaulF]

As a retired old guy growing and eating tomatoes along with you good people I have refined my tastes down to a paltry 40 or 50 varieties and I think I have lost sight of what the general open polinated/heirloom plant buying public would purchase from a nursery/greenhouse.

Let me explain a bit. A man and his wife operate a medium sized greenhouse/nursery in Northern Kansas and has grown mostly hydroponic tomatoes and sold hybrid plants, but has been getting interested in heirlooms the last couple of years. He approached me with the question, "How retired are you?" Then offered me the position of "Head of Tomato Operations" or something like that. What a perfect part-time job!

My duties, along with doing a lot of seed and dirt work, would be to grow, market and sell heirlooms to the general public. (I am assuming along with the biggers, betters and earlys, etc.)

Here it comes: how about if my network of friends give me a hand with what you think the heirlooms people out there would buy whether or not they have heard of heirlooms? Why go into this blind when I have 1000 friends to give an opinion?

Thanks,
Paul

[bonekittyslug]

Very interesting thought!

Methinks this will be a looong thread!

I'll start off with:
Cherokee Purple - for great taste
Silvery Fir Tree - for unique plant appearance + taste

[HeirloomNewb]

As the name notes.. I'm a newb. If I new very little about heirlooms and I was at a farmers market or what not I would probably snag something like a Green Zebra before anything else. I think it offers enough novelty that people will buy it. Now I'm a newb and have only grown plants from seed (this being my first year), but I'm going with what I would have done prior to this seed growing experience.

Novelty - taste = one sale

Novelty + Taste= Sales to newbies with potential for future sales since they will taste good.

I hope that helps look into the brains of a heirloom newb much like myself.

[TheDens]

Well, I'm a far cry from a tomato expert, but strictly from a marketing standpoint, blacks and green-when-ripes will be a hard sell to the average hobby gardener. I'd offer a few of the most popular "unusual" colors, but concentrate on the varieties that'll give most people what they expect a tomato to be: large, red or pink, round, and flavorful. I'd also concentrate on the most popular classics: Brandywine, Kellogg's Breakfast, Marianna's Peace, Mortgage Lifter, etc. Many of those who have some passing knowledge of heirlooms will be more apt to buy something they've heard of. Obviously, you don't have to limit yourself to these rules, but the laws of marketing apply to most products, including tomatoes. People tend to want things that live up to their expectations, and will tend to gravitate toward products (or varieties) they've heard of. There will also be a smaller niche market of people looking strictly for new, interesting things that they or their friends have never seen, so make sure to throw some cool stuff in there too; bicolors, interesting shapes and colors, hollow stuffing tomatoes, etc.

Denna

[Adenn1]

Paul:

Being a native of Nebraska...how about a few heirlooms from the region...Nebraska Wedding, Sioux and Super Sioux and Golden Bison. There are probably more out there.

I grew Super Sioux and Nebraska Wedding last year and really liked both. Also some "Big-Red" tomatoes that would be entertaining...Mortgage Lifter, Andrew Rahart's or Box Car Willie.

Good luck and enjoy!

[carolyn137]

Paul,

I think the most important question to be asked, which only you can answer, before folks start naming names, is for you to describe for us WHO will be buying the heirloom plants.

It' s one thing if the folks are primarily accustomed to round red hybrids, and and an occasional yellow showing up at the store, and granddad onece grew a pink one, as opposed to those who would be readinging gardening magazines, watching gardening shows, walk in and ask for that great new variety "Nephew John's Particolored Down Home Ellipse Shaped Heirloom" Variety.

In a conservative market area there's no need for most colors other than red and pink, maybe a few others sprinkled in, until the local folks have had a chance to grow and share and enthuse about some of them. Remember that for some, changing from growing hybrids to some OP's can be like changing from being a Methodist to a Born Again Druid.

So if you could outline your target population and your own feelings about this I do think it would help direct folks thoughts about making suggestions.

[HeirloomNewb]

I guess I should have clarified... I'm an odd duck and probably not your target market..... disreguard anything I said

[PaulF]

As usual, Carolyn, you make a good point. I have completely forgotten my economics and business administration background concerning demographics.

The target area is Northeast Kansas, Southeast Nebraska, rural to small town, usually older gardeners with a penchant for round red hybrids. Most are open to new-to-them varieties sprinkled in with the "old standbyes". Most people in this group are forward thinking and not afraid of new things. I have given 40-50 plants away this year to people in my area and they are fascinated by the strange variety names and the odd shapes and sizes.

Therefore, I would guess round red or pink would be predominant. Also, anything suggesting old-timey flavor would do well. A smattering of flavors, colors and shapes would entice the adventurous.

Past sales would indicate that several thousand seedlings would be sold during the tomato starting season.

Thanks

[Lee]

Start by having a mass invitation to your midwest tomatofest.
Get 'em hooked on taste and when they ask how they
can get a hold of xxx tomato, reel 'em in with your sales
pitch.

I would start with what you like and have found to grow well for you. Best advertising is personal experience.

Lee

[Denise_in_MI]

How close are you to Wyandotte County, Kansas...because I'm too lazy to google it right now? Old Wyandotte could be a good choice. I am growing this one because I live in Wyandotte, MI.

[melody]

I live in a small community with lots of old timey gardeners. The first year I offered plants for sale, I loaded the seedling trays with the most exotic and colorful varieties that I could round up....they'd stop by and whine that I didn't have Big Boys or Park's Whoppers...I sold my red rounds and the pinks...a few golds/oranges and bi colors (most were given away)

So...I just planted the majority of my seedlings. When harvest time rolled around, I took tomatoes and gave them away at the bank, beauty shops and insurance offices. Made a nice display similar to my avatar in baskets. Then, had small bags for folks to help themselves. Made flyers that gave information about the tomatoes...and my phone #.

I even took some to each 'coffee shop' where the old timers get together at 5am and drink coffee and gossip...made sure each old fellow got some...talked up the old fashioned taste and promoted the free tomatoes shamelessly...gave them to anyone who'd take some...and listen to the stories.

Cherokee Purple is now a local favorite..the big pink PL beefsteaks and the hearts are close seconds...but most of the community now accepts just about anything I grow. It was one full year of a money losing situation...but I felt that if I could educate the folks, I'd have a market.

I now sell as many tomatoes as I can start...and could do more, but choose to stay at a manageable 1 person operation. Most folks will call ahead in Jan/Feb and pre order. This gives me some kind of handle on what the trend will be for the season...and people know to get their names in the hat early, to make sure they get plants.

[travis]

Evansville, Indiana is a test market for just about everything, but especially for new concept restaurants and for testing new menu items at existing national chains. The city is 132,000 with another 40,000 out in the county and about a total of 400,000 in the four county service area.

That said, Evansville and the outlying service area is populated by some of the most conservative, "nothin' new for me, thanks," kinda folks you'd ever want to meet. Most folks here are the "red & round" kinda tomato lovers who think "yeller maters ain't much." There is some market for beefsteaks, but they suffer from the "don't them kind of maters crack a lot?" mentality.

Here is a list of standard best selling tomato seedlings I've compiled from years of observation in Evansville, Indiana ... test market capital of the Midwest:

Jet Star
Early Girl
Celebrity
Better Boy
Big Boy
Roma
Big Beef
Rutgers
Beefmaster Hybrid
Bonny's Original Hybrid
Sweet 100
Lemon Boy
Red Beefsteak (probably Crimson Cushion/Red Ponderosa
Pink Beefsteak (probably Ponderosa)
Super Beefsteak
Golden Jubilee (that's how they lable it)
and Yellow Pear
pretty much in that descending order
That's about it, except

Last few years, all the big box stores have added:

Mr. Stripey
German Queen
and Brandywine

Now there's an enterprizing vendor at a huge fruit stand that's brought in some variety from Chef Jeff, and he sells out everything he vends ... all the standards named above plus lately:

Cherokee Purple
Brandywine
Green Zebra
Black Krim
Wisconsin 55
Husky Red
Mountain Fresh
Mountain Pride
and probably a couple of others I'm forgetting.

And then there's a lady who opened up an organic place called the Sage Barn and she sells quite a variety including:

Amish Paste
Yellow Brandywine
Big Beef
Arkansas Traveler
Beefsteak
Black Krim
Brandywine
Cherokee Purple
German Johnson
German Red Strawberry
Green Grape
Green Zebra
Isis Candy Cherry
Juliet
Kentucky Beefsteak
Matt's Wild Cherry
Mortgage Lifter
Moskvich
Pink Beauty
Purple Russian
Reisentraub
Siletz
Striped German
Wapsipinizon Peach
New Girl Hybrid

Now this organic place is new, having sold seedlings for only two years, but she's selling faily well and takes some of her surplus up to a farm market in Newburgh, Indiana (a bedroom community of yuppies and professionals) where they sell even better.

She says the varieties that sell the fastest still are those hybrids like Big Beef and Juliet, but that the lesser knowns are starting to pick up.

Ted Kroeger Greenhouse over in Newburgh is selling wholesale and retail about 30 varieties, down from 60 varieties last year. Some that are different than those I may have named above include:

Pineapple
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Azoychka (sorry, Carolyn and Craig, but it's the potato leaf one)
Bloody Butcher
Abraham Lincoln
Dinner Plate
Delicious (he couldn't tell me which one, but he said he's only trying it this year for reasons of size), and apparently a bunch of others he didn't have time to name off for me.

He's selling the OPs pretty well he said along with the standard hybrids, slicers and canners. Ted told me he dropped Mortgage Lifter from the line-up this year because he thinks it tastes like a mealy watermelon. (He was buying seed from Totally Tomatoes and couldn't tell me which strain it was.) He buys most of his seeds from TT, TGS, Parks, Johnny's, Pinetree, Sandhill, and Territorial.

So, it's really a matter of marketing, and from what these guys are telling me, you better be marketing good varieties and not dogs, because it's all about repeat customers. Your reputation is gonna be on the line when you recommend a variety to a customer, that customer is depending on you knowing what the heck you're talkin' about because he sure ain't gonna know a heck of a lot about OPs if he's comin' outta the hybrid bag.

I'd keep the menu narrow and concentrate on known winners in the slicing, canning, juicing, paste, and especially cherries types... everybody wants good cherries and salad tomatoes ... and dependable slicers that'll fill up the hamburger bun.

If you can provide the customers with those, you'll develop a good reputation and a repeat customer base.

PV

[Organic_Nut]

if you want to do plants, my recommendation is to start the plants early and have the biggest plants available. have some big ones early so the word can get around.

right now I see people with great varieties but the plants are absolutely minimum size. talked to them today and that is the way they want to increase profits.

Buyers want big plants.

I went to another person who sells everything in singles for $3 but has variety and his plants are real good size. he sells out every year at a tiny farm stand in a nothing location. not a huge business but people all know he has the best plants.

he sell really big plants with tomatoes on them for $7. he sells tons of cherry or salad type plants. lots of heirloom. but he said he never ate them so had no experience with them.

definitely go with cherokee purple and Brandywine ( sudduth) and feature them to begin. have some early even if the big variety comes later.

print up a page to explain the varieties. education will help sell them.

to make big profits the market is going over to picking up the big retailers like walmart and home depot to resell the plants. look at Bonnie Plants for a model of what they are doing.

by the way 90% of the greenhouse plant people in new england lost their shirt last year. most went bankrupt. it was the coldest May in over 100 years. lots of people never put in gardens and the greenhouse guys got clobbered. nobody bought their plants. everyone in new england is playing it very cautiously this year. they are going for a one weekend sale on memorial day weekend. and that is it. not much else. I have been finding it very difficult to find plants yet. everyone says later. I got into some greenhouses and the plants are super tiny. a real shame. hardly out of the seeds.

right now it is cold and rainy and no one is buying plants so far the sellers are right. So many people did not grow last year. they need for these people to return to growing. it might take a couple of years.
.
.

[PaulF]

Very good advise from everyone. Thank you very much.

The greenhouse sells hydroponically grown tomatoes starting in Feb/March and plants beginning in late April (for those who like to replant later) and all of May. They have lots of other vegetable plants as well as more flowers, trees and shrubs than you can shake a stick at.

[moucheur]

You want ones with "buzz". Either they already have it (eg, Brandywine) or you can generate it with good background stories (eg, Radiator Charlie's Mortgage Lifter) or names (eg, Stump of the World, Box Car Willie) or exotic shapes or colors. But you also want them to be reliable enough to generate happy customers and repeat purchases in future years. Very late maturing varieties might disappoint your customers if not enough of them ripen. Some ideas:

Pink/red slicers:

Pruden's Purple
Brandywine
Red Brandywine
Mortgage Lifter (Radiator Charlie's)
Box Car Willie
Gregori's Altai
Tidwell German
Stump of the World
Aker's West Virginia

Early:
Stupice
Matina
Kimberly
Tigerella
Sasha's Altai
Fireworks

Yellow/Orange slicers:
Kellogg's Breakfast
Aunt Gertie's Gold
Golden Queen (USDA)
Earl of Edgecomb
Yellow Brandywine

Purple/Black:
Carbon
Paul Robeson
Black Krim
Black from Tula
Cherokee Purple
Indian Stripe
Purple Calabash

Paste:
Opalka
Polish Linguisa
Jersey Devil
Costoluto Genovese
Amish Paste
Sausage
San Marzano

Cherry:
Blondkoepfchen
Riesentraube
Red Pear
Yellow Pear

Bicolor:
Hillbilly
Striped or Old German
Copia

Heart:
Teton de Venus
German Red Strawberry
Orange Strawberry
Anna Russian
Orange Russian
Kosovo

Stuffers:
Novogogoshary
Striped Cavern
Yellow Stuffer

Weird and Different:
Silvery Fir Tree
Stick