Green Tomato Worm

Salty_Dog · December 2, 2009

I have found 2 of these little critters on my plants.

One from a store bought plant, thus i brought it home, it was inside a curled up leaf in a small web that was holding the whole show closed.
Both have been very small in size, maybe 3/4" long or 17mm.

Now i have never had these before in previous years growing.

So my question is just how do these little guys turn up?
All of my plants are in containers and up off the ground on paving or timber decking.

I only ever notice them when i am removing the odd lower leaf that might of started to turn yellow etc, generally i will notice a couple of small leafs missing and near by will be this little green worm.

How much of a problem is it?
Will it start boring holes in my fruit?
Do they bread up?

Any suggested methods of control?
It just has my perplexed how they even turn up?

Many Thanks

P.S. I see some are called Hornworms, not sure if that is what i have, as the 2 i have found were very small. Perhaps i just found them when they were young though?
Mine have been pretty much all green with no other colorings. Very hard to spot, as they are a perfect match to the foliage.

ContainerTed · December 2, 2009

You are now one of us. The hornworms have found you.

It is the larvae of what we call the "hawk moth", a very large moth that will visit at night. They lay eggs and then the eggs hatch and the larvae eat tomato plants and fruit.

Yes, they will eat the foliage and the tomatoes, too. And they are also partial to peppers and pepper plant foliage. Here's some pix's of some from my garden. The last picture shows how a certain wasp will lay eggs on the hornworm and the hatching larvae devour it from the inside.

Preventative sprayings with an insecticide will give them a bad tummy ache before they can do much damage. Otherwise, you must use vigilance and search daily for their tell-tale damage and droppings.

Welcome to the group.

Ted

Salty_Dog · December 2, 2009

Ah bugger.... This year i have planted Peppers and Tomatos... thats it

Interestingly i sprayed my plants with Copper last night which left a blueish stain on leafs... it didn't seem to bother these little critters though.

So far i haven't noticed the horn on any of these worms and i am not even sure we get those moths in Australia, but i really have no idea.

My eyes will be peeled from now on... IT'S WAR

ContainerTed · December 2, 2009

Copper solutions won't get these guys. I use the strong stuff - usually a chemical insecticide. Sprayed on the leaves, the hornworms eat it and then ...... Yeah!!!!

Seriously, they are capable of defoliating a medium sized tomato plant. Some of the ones I had this year were 4 inches long and 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter.

BlueAussie and I both nearly lost pepper plants to some big ones. Once you find one, you need to check a couple times a day until you find them all. Then you "might" get a two or three week reprieve until they come back. That's why I do preventative sprays. I had 27 of them in 2009 and my sprays found all but 5.

Assuming that's your picture, can we see the entire critter??? I'm curious from a critter evolutionary point.

Good luck and stay awake.

Ted

Salty_Dog · December 2, 2009

Thanks Ted,

No that is not my actual picture, just one I found online while trying to identify what i had.
My digital camera is still lost interstate, i might get a lend of a friends and take a picture for positive I.D. when i find the next one.

MY plants in the SWC are so thick and bushy, i can see just how hard it is going to be to look for them... its a jungle in there.
Interestingly, the 2 green worms i have found were on young tender plants no larger than 1.5 foot tall with sparse foliage

**mdvpc** · December 2, 2009

I use pyrethrum-its an organic pesticide-you spray first thing in the morning, right after sunrise when they are feeding. There is also a powder here in the USA that is effective. They stop feeding almost immediately and die. You can often find these hornworms by finding their fecal trail-that is sometimes your first indication that they are there. They will devastate your plants if you dont stay on top of them.

geeboss · December 2, 2009

Pick em and drop em in some soapy water. They will eat that plant down very quickly if left alone. Also check for the little dark frase pellets.

George

Salty_Dog · December 2, 2009

I have been picking them, then introducing them to the under side of my work boots with my 108Kg on top.... Although that tends to make a bright green mess.

tessa · December 2, 2009

salty...get thee to the bunnings.
there are two environmentally friendly bio-insecticides you can get there that will help you with the problem.
the first is called 'success' and it comes in a little yellow plastic bottle. it contains spinosad and when sprayed on the leaves of your tomatoes...controls all sorts of leaf-eating caterpillars. basically, what happens is they ingest some, then stop feeding almost immediately. they become infected and feel full. they will remain sitting on the leaves for 3-4 more days...then drop off, dead from starvation.
the second product is called dipel. it will be on the shelf very close to the success. it is in a green cardboard box. it will take you the afternoon to read the list of caterpillars that it controls. equally safe and effective.
both require being sprayed onto the plants.

Salty_Dog · December 3, 2009

Thanks heaps tessa

I will do that. Funny, i just gave all my plants a close inpection then trying to find another green worm... It's amazing what other things you see when you REALLY take a closer look.

Couldn't find anymore Green Worms, but did cut off any leafs with spots or that were half eaten and just gave the plants a general tidy up with my trusty surgeons scalpel.

They still had some of the Copper Spray on the leafs from yesterdays application, it leaves a blueish stain... as it was a warm wind day, i just gave the whole plants a little blast with the hose (I probably wasn't meant to do that right?)

I will look for those items in my local Bunnings, i do remember seeing that Success stuff in other gardener friends homes now you mention it.

Thanks

tessa · December 3, 2009

salty...the copper spray (bluestone, or copper sulphite) is an excellent anti-fungal and should deal with any mildew outbreaks rather handily.
not too sure about its insecticidal properties.
i think i'll go google.

Salty_Dog · December 3, 2009

Yes, i put the Copper on because of a small outbreak in a Black Speck that some of my plants had. I knew it would have no or little effect on the worms or other insects.

Blueaussi · December 3, 2009

Aeeii! You have been cursed with a plague of Tomato Hornworms! There is but one hope, and one hope only. You must appease the Mother of All Braconid Wasps, She from Whom Hornworm Parasitism Flows!

Borrow this friend's camera on the next full moon. Set it on video, and so that it's view encompasses the garden. Get thee skyclad and paint your...erm...thorax... brownish red. Place antennae upon your brow, and then you must dance! Dance the Forbidden Dance of Waspy Love! As you whirl upon your toes, wildly click your elytra, calling much parasitic goodness down upon your garden!

And then you must post this video on You Tube with appropriate links here on Tomatoville.

Wi-sunflower · December 3, 2009

I don't want to cause alarm, but if you look close at Ted's 3rd pic, (the pic with the quarter) you will also see that there are white fly or aphids on the leaves. It's too small to figure out definately which it is.

The cure for those worms won't help with the other 2 insects but Lady Bugs will help if there isn't an explosion of them.

Since you said the pic isn't you own, and the fact that the worms are very small so far, It's possible that they are just "loopers". While loopers tend to favor cabbage family plants, I have seen them on tomatoes and peppers. On peppers they will get into the actual fruit by burrowing in at the edge of the caylix. Often happens in cool weather. The dipel should work on them as well as the hornworm.

Carol

Salty_Dog · December 3, 2009

Carol,

Thank you, i actually do have a hole in one of my Chili Fruit.
I will look up "loopers" and see if that fits my finding more correctly

Yes, you are 100% correct...

http://www.ent.uga.edu/veg/colecrops/cabbagelooper.htm

or

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/engl...ge-looper.html

This is much more like what i had!
They were always small and i couldn't ever see a horn, nor droppings.
Yet i would see the leaf damage, which was either smallish holes or the smaller leafs half eaten.

Now i must apologise for my poor and incorrect identification in the first post.

December 2, 2009	#1
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	Green Tomato Worm I have found 2 of these little critters on my plants. One from a store bought plant, thus i brought it home, it was inside a curled up leaf in a small web that was holding the whole show closed. Both have been very small in size, maybe 3/4" long or 17mm. Now i have never had these before in previous years growing. So my question is just how do these little guys turn up? All of my plants are in containers and up off the ground on paving or timber decking. I only ever notice them when i am removing the odd lower leaf that might of started to turn yellow etc, generally i will notice a couple of small leafs missing and near by will be this little green worm. How much of a problem is it? Will it start boring holes in my fruit? Do they bread up? Any suggested methods of control? It just has my perplexed how they even turn up? Many Thanks P.S. I see some are called Hornworms, not sure if that is what i have, as the 2 i have found were very small. Perhaps i just found them when they were young though? Mine have been pretty much all green with no other colorings. Very hard to spot, as they are a perfect match to the foliage. Last edited by Salty_Dog; December 2, 2009 at 07:12 PM.

December 2, 2009	#4
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Copper solutions won't get these guys. I use the strong stuff - usually a chemical insecticide. Sprayed on the leaves, the hornworms eat it and then ...... Yeah!!!! Seriously, they are capable of defoliating a medium sized tomato plant. Some of the ones I had this year were 4 inches long and 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter. BlueAussie and I both nearly lost pepper plants to some big ones. Once you find one, you need to check a couple times a day until you find them all. Then you "might" get a two or three week reprieve until they come back. That's why I do preventative sprays. I had 27 of them in 2009 and my sprays found all but 5. Assuming that's your picture, can we see the entire critter??? I'm curious from a critter evolutionary point. Good luck and stay awake. Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

December 2, 2009	#6
mdvpc Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4,386	I use pyrethrum-its an organic pesticide-you spray first thing in the morning, right after sunrise when they are feeding. There is also a powder here in the USA that is effective. They stop feeding almost immediately and die. You can often find these hornworms by finding their fecal trail-that is sometimes your first indication that they are there. They will devastate your plants if you dont stay on top of them. __________________ Michael

December 3, 2009	#14
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	I don't want to cause alarm, but if you look close at Ted's 3rd pic, (the pic with the quarter) you will also see that there are white fly or aphids on the leaves. It's too small to figure out definately which it is. The cure for those worms won't help with the other 2 insects but Lady Bugs will help if there isn't an explosion of them. Since you said the pic isn't you own, and the fact that the worms are very small so far, It's possible that they are just "loopers". While loopers tend to favor cabbage family plants, I have seen them on tomatoes and peppers. On peppers they will get into the actual fruit by burrowing in at the edge of the caylix. Often happens in cool weather. The dipel should work on them as well as the hornworm. Carol Last edited by Wi-sunflower; December 3, 2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason: added thought

December 3, 2009	#15
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	Carol, Thank you, i actually do have a hole in one of my Chili Fruit. I will look up "loopers" and see if that fits my finding more correctly Yes, you are 100% correct... http://www.ent.uga.edu/veg/colecrops/cabbagelooper.htm or http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/engl...ge-looper.html This is much more like what i had! They were always small and i couldn't ever see a horn, nor droppings. Yet i would see the leaf damage, which was either smallish holes or the smaller leafs half eaten. Now i must apologise for my poor and incorrect identification in the first post. Last edited by Salty_Dog; December 3, 2009 at 05:56 PM.

December 2, 2009	#7
geeboss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Z7 Posts: 524	Pick em and drop em in some soapy water. They will eat that plant down very quickly if left alone. Also check for the little dark frase pellets. George

December 2, 2009	#9
tessa Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: perth, western australia Posts: 1,031	salty...get thee to the bunnings. there are two environmentally friendly bio-insecticides you can get there that will help you with the problem. the first is called 'success' and it comes in a little yellow plastic bottle. it contains spinosad and when sprayed on the leaves of your tomatoes...controls all sorts of leaf-eating caterpillars. basically, what happens is they ingest some, then stop feeding almost immediately. they become infected and feel full. they will remain sitting on the leaves for 3-4 more days...then drop off, dead from starvation. the second product is called dipel. it will be on the shelf very close to the success. it is in a green cardboard box. it will take you the afternoon to read the list of caterpillars that it controls. equally safe and effective. both require being sprayed onto the plants.

December 3, 2009	#10
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	Thanks heaps tessa I will do that. Funny, i just gave all my plants a close inpection then trying to find another green worm... It's amazing what other things you see when you REALLY take a closer look. Couldn't find anymore Green Worms, but did cut off any leafs with spots or that were half eaten and just gave the plants a general tidy up with my trusty surgeons scalpel. They still had some of the Copper Spray on the leafs from yesterdays application, it leaves a blueish stain... as it was a warm wind day, i just gave the whole plants a little blast with the hose (I probably wasn't meant to do that right?) I will look for those items in my local Bunnings, i do remember seeing that Success stuff in other gardener friends homes now you mention it. Thanks

December 3, 2009	#13
Blueaussi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Zone 8a Posts: 1,205	Aeeii! You have been cursed with a plague of Tomato Hornworms! There is but one hope, and one hope only. You must appease the Mother of All Braconid Wasps, She from Whom Hornworm Parasitism Flows! Borrow this friend's camera on the next full moon. Set it on video, and so that it's view encompasses the garden. Get thee skyclad and paint your...erm...thorax... brownish red. Place antennae upon your brow, and then you must dance! Dance the Forbidden Dance of Waspy Love! As you whirl upon your toes, wildly click your elytra, calling much parasitic goodness down upon your garden! And then you must post this video on You Tube with appropriate links here on Tomatoville.