Hearts - Plant Size

barkeater · May 26, 2006

Do Hearts normally get as big as other indeterminate plants, or are they generally more of a compact indeterminate like blacks are? Or is it just the ones with "wispy" foliage? Thanks

**carolyn137** · May 26, 2006

Bark,

I really think it depends on the specific heart shaped variety you're growing as to plant habit.

For instance, Anna Russian for me is indet but rather rangy and not as substantial, for instance, as would be German Red Strawberry or Reif Red Heart, or some others.

In general I think most of them are not as substantial a plant simply b'c of the finely dissected droopy foliage, but that doesn't mean they aren't vigorous.

As I've said many times, while most heart shaped varieties have rather low production as compared with many other varieties they have some of the very best tasting varieties, IMO, and are some of my very favorites.

Suze · May 26, 2006

bark -- the 'wispy' hearts/plums I've grown tend to get every bit as tall as an average sized indet. But they don't tend to take up as much of a footprint or get as dense as most standard RLs. For example, I'm growing several this year, and they all easily made it to the top of a 6 ft Texas cage (and even a hair beyond), but they don't really completely fill out the cages width-wise, Kosovo and Purple Russian being the exceptions.

In short -- they are usually lanky.

barkeater · May 26, 2006

That is good to know. I'm growing 3 hearts for the first time: Anna Russian, Wes, and Kosovo. Most indeterminates I plant 3' apart, but I have other compact indeterminates I am putting 2 1/2 feet apart in the same row so I can squeeze in an extra plant or 2.

**coronabarb** · May 27, 2006

I had great success with Anna Russian two years ago, when the weather made for a great tomato year. It grew into quite a large plant with very good production. Flavor was fantastic. I wish it grew that well every year. (if we get a heat spell early on [100+], the wispy foliage doesn't do well).

Gimme3 · May 30, 2006

Barkeater...you asked a good question, been given some Fine answers, an i think you are Dead On...the right track of thinkin.

Heres more input....first of all, i dont know how any so-called "black" tomato grows. Never have tried one. But any Heart-shape i've grown (Anna russian, German Red SB, Opalka ***) express the Same wilty-lookin foilage (apologies to Dr. C....shoulda called it Droopy...lol)...and you are dead correct, they grow up, not out. They'll happilly lay down an sprawl, if you let them. They Dont need near as much horizontal space, nor soil, if you can give them vertical support. I actually have a few PVC cages built especially for Anna, GRSB, and BW, that are narrower than the cages i use for a Big Beef . Of the 3 mentioned....Opalka expresses the greatest amount of girth, yet the shortest height. Anna grows fairly tall, with plentiful foilage unless sick. GRSB grows Quite tall, if supported, an is sparse in it's foilage, compared to an Anna...late in it's season.

I would not call a GRSB a "compact " indeterminate. Anna borders on being such, in my brief experience to date, with it. Opalka ...Does , fit that mold...to me....

Now...where's all the folks growin Russian 117 ? Lets hear from Them....why has nobody said a peep about them,...this entire season ?

gardenmama · May 30, 2006

EEP:

Russian #117 was nicely behaved and a great late season variety last year. Around 5-6ft tall with minimal branching and sparse heavily cut fine foliage yet good production, blemish free fruits and wonderful flavor.

It needed the least amount of tying/support as it eagerly wound its way through the /\-shaped trellis I had made out of part of a livestock panel. I liked it well enough that it's in this year's garden along with Wes, Prue and Mama Leone (all first timers) in the "Wispy Kids" section.

**nctomatoman** · May 30, 2006

I've found that hearts start off a bit slowly and sickly looking but end up just as rampant/large as their non-heart brethren.

barkeater · May 30, 2006

Well, all 41 are now planted. I put Anna 2 1/2 feet between Wisconsin 55 and Break O'Day as they are kinda compact, but Wes and Kosovo got the full 3 feet.

Gimme3 · June 2, 2006

GardenMama....thats kinda an ugly pair (pears) of fruit...lol...an I Wonder....why YOU are the Only One....talkin bout Russian 117...)))

Dont get me wrong....i SO Appreciate the picture posted, and your Kind detail, about it.

Good Lord, it (Russian 117) was the Second Coming of Christ...to a lot of People...last Season...)))

I'm Still...Callin folks out....thats growin Russian 117.
Tell us about your plants, please.

Tell us...What to expect, if you've grown this cultivar before.

Bark...jus tryin to pull More info about Heart-Shapes. I like your Thread, an feel like this is a Good Place to ASK...pertinent questions.

gardenmama · June 3, 2006

Quote:

Good Lord, it (Russian 117) was the Second Coming of Christ...to a lot of People...last Season...)))

I think that others may be like me.... unlimited cosmic numbers of varieties on the wish list, itty bitty gardening plot...(my apologies to Genie).... necessitating in growing the "latest and greatest must haves" a few "must grows" and "revisits" taking up the alloted space each season. I adore Kosovo, but as Wes, Prue and Mama Leone were "new to me" this year they bumped Kosovo off the list for this year. Russian #117 made a reappearance as it fit two "catagories" for growing that have fewer varieties- heart shaped and bi-color.

tjg911 · June 5, 2006

i am most familiar with prue and until last year i never grew any hearts. i'm not sure prue should be considered a heart cuz it doesn't have the shape of wes or kosovo. some prue fruits are more rounded vs tapering to a tip (kinda an inverse pear shape) with a nipple so i suspose it could be considered a heart. if hearts are typically wispy then prue is in that group!

kosovo was grown in the garden and i don't remember it being sparse at all tho it was a bit wispy but not that much. i thought the tomatoes tasted very good.

wes was in a 5 gallon pail last year but again i don't remember it being sparse. there were very few fruits and i'm not sure whether i got a good representation of wes in a 5 gallon pail, see my comments in the next paragraph. 1 thing i remember, the skins were tough and i did not like that. some tomatoes were so so but some were good so this year wes is going into the garden for a better taste test.

i agree with craig, prue fills out as the season progresses tho it stays very wispy. last year prue and off the vine brandywine were in a 5 gallon pail. neither tomato was even close to what i get every year when i've grow them in the garden. keep in mind prue is my favorite tomato and off the vine brandywine is one of my top favorites. now based upon taste and yields last year in a 5 gallon pail i'd never grow prue or otvb again if they were new varieties to me! poor yields and taste was just plain lousy!

based upon those 2 excellent tomatoes poor results, i'll never grow tomatoes in a container again. it's the garden or nothing for me. some container tomatoes were good, azoychka, lillian's yellow, sandul moldovan. zogola was not impressive. sandul moldovan and zogola are going into the garden this year for a real taste test. i know i wandered off the topic ranting about containers but in discussing wes and prue i thought it gave a view i wouldn't have expected.

tom

Gimme3 · June 5, 2006

Tom...yo input is mighty appreciated...cause it's On Target...an i bet they aint many folks aint ever tried to grow a Heart tomato in a container, an if they did, i bet yo results rank among the finest, for such an endeavor. A heart tomato aint easy to grow...period...w'great success...much less in a container. Lets face it....we dont grow these for yield...we grow them for TASTE....and Beauty.

you are DEAD on..in yo thinkin...Tom...give that plant a beautiful place to sink it's Roots into....an then...ponder it.

Aint no tomato ever tasted any finer, to me....than a GRSB...or maybe an Opalka....they ALL...worth the many little panics they cause us, when we view that silly foilage, an crazy growth habit...))) Brandywine comes mighty close...)))

barkeater · June 6, 2006

Unfortunately, my GRS seed never germinated, but I do have an Opalka plant growing nicely. Kosovo sand Anna Russian are still 2 of the weakest plants in the garden, but Wes is as pumped up as my Campbells, Ramapos, and Brandywines.

timcunningham · June 7, 2006

Gardenmama,

I keep coming back to this thread just to look at that photo of Russian 117, that is the most beautiful looking tomato I have ever seen!

May 26, 2006	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Bark, I really think it depends on the specific heart shaped variety you're growing as to plant habit. For instance, Anna Russian for me is indet but rather rangy and not as substantial, for instance, as would be German Red Strawberry or Reif Red Heart, or some others. In general I think most of them are not as substantial a plant simply b'c of the finely dissected droopy foliage, but that doesn't mean they aren't vigorous. As I've said many times, while most heart shaped varieties have rather low production as compared with many other varieties they have some of the very best tasting varieties, IMO, and are some of my very favorites. __________________ Carolyn

May 27, 2006	#5
coronabarb Tomatoville® Recipe Keeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roseburg, Oregon - zone 7 Posts: 2,821	I had great success with Anna Russian two years ago, when the weather made for a great tomato year. It grew into quite a large plant with very good production. Flavor was fantastic. I wish it grew that well every year. (if we get a heat spell early on [100+], the wispy foliage doesn't do well). __________________ Corona~Barb Now an Oregon gal

May 30, 2006	#6
Gimme3 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northeast Georgia, USA Posts: 348	Barkeater...you asked a good question, been given some Fine answers, an i think you are Dead On...the right track of thinkin. Heres more input....first of all, i dont know how any so-called "black" tomato grows. Never have tried one. But any Heart-shape i've grown (Anna russian, German Red SB, Opalka ***) express the Same wilty-lookin foilage (apologies to Dr. C....shoulda called it Droopy...lol)...and you are dead correct, they grow up, not out. They'll happilly lay down an sprawl, if you let them. They Dont need near as much horizontal space, nor soil, if you can give them vertical support. I actually have a few PVC cages built especially for Anna, GRSB, and BW, that are narrower than the cages i use for a Big Beef . Of the 3 mentioned....Opalka expresses the greatest amount of girth, yet the shortest height. Anna grows fairly tall, with plentiful foilage unless sick. GRSB grows Quite tall, if supported, an is sparse in it's foilage, compared to an Anna...late in it's season. I would not call a GRSB a "compact " indeterminate. Anna borders on being such, in my brief experience to date, with it. Opalka ...Does , fit that mold...to me.... Now...where's all the folks growin Russian 117 ? Lets hear from Them....why has nobody said a peep about them,...this entire season ? __________________ ....Can you tell a green Field.....from a cold steel rail ? Roger Waters, David Gilmour

May 30, 2006	#7
gardenmama Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 7b/8a SE VA Posts: 268	EEP: Russian #117 was nicely behaved and a great late season variety last year. Around 5-6ft tall with minimal branching and sparse heavily cut fine foliage yet good production, blemish free fruits and wonderful flavor. It needed the least amount of tying/support as it eagerly wound its way through the /\-shaped trellis I had made out of part of a livestock panel. I liked it well enough that it's in this year's garden along with Wes, Prue and Mama Leone (all first timers) in the "Wispy Kids" section. __________________ -Martha SE VA

May 30, 2006	#8
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I've found that hearts start off a bit slowly and sickly looking but end up just as rampant/large as their non-heart brethren. __________________ Craig

May 26, 2006	#1
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Hearts - Plant Size Do Hearts normally get as big as other indeterminate plants, or are they generally more of a compact indeterminate like blacks are? Or is it just the ones with "wispy" foliage? Thanks

May 26, 2006	#3
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	bark -- the 'wispy' hearts/plums I've grown tend to get every bit as tall as an average sized indet. But they don't tend to take up as much of a footprint or get as dense as most standard RLs. For example, I'm growing several this year, and they all easily made it to the top of a 6 ft Texas cage (and even a hair beyond), but they don't really completely fill out the cages width-wise, Kosovo and Purple Russian being the exceptions. In short -- they are usually lanky.

June 2, 2006	#10
Gimme3 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northeast Georgia, USA Posts: 348	GardenMama....thats kinda an ugly pair (pears) of fruit...lol...an I Wonder....why YOU are the Only One....talkin bout Russian 117...))) Dont get me wrong....i SO Appreciate the picture posted, and your Kind detail, about it. Good Lord, it (Russian 117) was the Second Coming of Christ...to a lot of People...last Season...))) I'm Still...Callin folks out....thats growin Russian 117. Tell us about your plants, please. Tell us...What to expect, if you've grown this cultivar before. Bark...jus tryin to pull More info about Heart-Shapes. I like your Thread, an feel like this is a Good Place to ASK...pertinent questions. __________________ ....Can you tell a green Field.....from a cold steel rail ? Roger Waters, David Gilmour

June 5, 2006	#12
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	i am most familiar with prue and until last year i never grew any hearts. i'm not sure prue should be considered a heart cuz it doesn't have the shape of wes or kosovo. some prue fruits are more rounded vs tapering to a tip (kinda an inverse pear shape) with a nipple so i suspose it could be considered a heart. if hearts are typically wispy then prue is in that group! kosovo was grown in the garden and i don't remember it being sparse at all tho it was a bit wispy but not that much. i thought the tomatoes tasted very good. wes was in a 5 gallon pail last year but again i don't remember it being sparse. there were very few fruits and i'm not sure whether i got a good representation of wes in a 5 gallon pail, see my comments in the next paragraph. 1 thing i remember, the skins were tough and i did not like that. some tomatoes were so so but some were good so this year wes is going into the garden for a better taste test. i agree with craig, prue fills out as the season progresses tho it stays very wispy. last year prue and off the vine brandywine were in a 5 gallon pail. neither tomato was even close to what i get every year when i've grow them in the garden. keep in mind prue is my favorite tomato and off the vine brandywine is one of my top favorites. now based upon taste and yields last year in a 5 gallon pail i'd never grow prue or otvb again if they were new varieties to me! poor yields and taste was just plain lousy! based upon those 2 excellent tomatoes poor results, i'll never grow tomatoes in a container again. it's the garden or nothing for me. some container tomatoes were good, azoychka, lillian's yellow, sandul moldovan. zogola was not impressive. sandul moldovan and zogola are going into the garden this year for a real taste test. i know i wandered off the topic ranting about containers but in discussing wes and prue i thought it gave a view i wouldn't have expected. tom

June 6, 2006	#14
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Unfortunately, my GRS seed never germinated, but I do have an Opalka plant growing nicely. Kosovo sand Anna Russian are still 2 of the weakest plants in the garden, but Wes is as pumped up as my Campbells, Ramapos, and Brandywines.

June 7, 2006	#15
timcunningham Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Georgia Posts: 241	Gardenmama, I keep coming back to this thread just to look at that photo of Russian 117, that is the most beautiful looking tomato I have ever seen! __________________ Visit my site: tomatoindex.com a database of over 2700 varieties. Vote for your favorite.