Some data - crossing (lack of, actually!) in my tomatoes

**nctomatoman** · March 27, 2010

This is always an interesting time of the spring - when I get to see how my recessive trait tomatoes germinate to check on crossing (I don't bag blossoms and grow plants close together).

So far, I have the following PL varieties:

Ben Gantz - 2009 saved seed - 31 seeds planted, 31 plants, all potato leaf. (Ben grew next to two regular leaf varieties last year)

Casey's Pure Yellow - 2008 saved seed - 27 seeds planted, 27 plants, all potato leaf. (Casey grew next to two RL varieties in 2008)

And for Dwarfs:

the PL dwarfs - four different ones, 100 seeds planted, 100 plants, all dwarf, all PL
the RL dwarfs - two different ones - 50 seeds planted, 50 plants, all dwarf, all RL.

I've yet to transplant KBX, Kimberly, Lillian's Yellow, Lucky Cross, Little Lucky, Yellow Brandywine (all PL) and 4 other dwarfs... will report on those when I finish the transplanting.

I was pretty shocked to see this - I expect up to 5% crossing, but this was very encouraging to see.

just thought it was interesting enough to share.

dustdevil · March 28, 2010

Some lack of crossing may be due to the bee population shrinking.

**nctomatoman** · March 28, 2010

We have plenty of bees around in our area (all sorts - bumbles, honeys, wilds) - I think it is more that there are much more attractive targets for the bees, and that the flowers are doing what they should do - self pollinate just as they open, so even bee visits after that would not cause crossing, because the deed is already done.

It hums around here in the summer time!

dustdevil · March 28, 2010

Lucky you. I haven't seen a honey bee on our property in two years. We do have bumble bees. Colony collapse is a big issue here in WI farm country.

ddsack · March 28, 2010

I'm happy to hear of your lack of accidental crosses, Craig! Every year I swear I will start bagging and then when the times comes, so much other summer stuff happens (vacations, relatives visiting etc....) that my good intentions fall by the wayside.
If YOU don't bag, then I won't feel so negligent.

Last summer I did end up with an interesting possible cross(?) in some some Cherokee Chocolate seeds that I saved four years ago. The surprise fruit was a deep intense red, without the blackish cast, and very good flavor for last year's cool summer. I can't find my garden map from 2006, but since I tend to plant alphabetically, it's likely Cuostralee was on one side and a possible pollen donor. I am growing a couple of F2's this year to see what happens next.

**Lee** · March 28, 2010

Ooooh, Cuostralee crossing with Cherokee Chocolate... he says
with hand held high hoping for a few seeds if the F2s prove
interesting!

Lee

P.S. Very little crossing noted here on the other side of the
county from Craig. Bees do visit, but I agree with Craig in that
it may be after the true pollination is complete.

Paul R · March 28, 2010

Interesting, thanks for the post nctomatoman. If there is more testing you are doing please keep us up to date.

ddsack · March 28, 2010

Lee, if the F2's are anything like the F1, I might have seeds to share next fall. The nice thing was it had a shorter DTM, because I doubt I would have gotten any ripe Cuostralee's last summer. I found the pictures I took last fall, and I do have some seeds from these pictured if you want any now. Of course I guarantee nothing!

**nctomatoman** · March 28, 2010

Interesting, Dee. The interior structure is much more like Cuostralee than Cherokee Chocolate. The Cherokees tend to have small locules randomly distributed across the slide, rather than the large central flesh mass and larger locules around the outer edge.

ddsack · March 28, 2010

I'm glad you said that Craig. I searched few other pictures of Cherokee Chocolate on the internet and did find a couple of dark reds that looked to be almost similar to mine, so was beginning to think maybe it was a weather related change. But all last year's CC were redder in color without the darker shoulders that I was used to seeing in previous years.

Wi-sunflower · March 29, 2010

Dee,

You probably had a no-heat summer like I had last year, since we are pretty much in the same general area. Absolutely ALL my dark variety tomatoes looked really crummy last year. Many had a rather yellow/brown color instead of the nice brown/purple color they should have had.

But since you said it had a nice dark red color, the chances are it was some kind of cross. None of my darks were red instead.

Carol

March 27, 2010	#1
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Some data - crossing (lack of, actually!) in my tomatoes This is always an interesting time of the spring - when I get to see how my recessive trait tomatoes germinate to check on crossing (I don't bag blossoms and grow plants close together). So far, I have the following PL varieties: Ben Gantz - 2009 saved seed - 31 seeds planted, 31 plants, all potato leaf. (Ben grew next to two regular leaf varieties last year) Casey's Pure Yellow - 2008 saved seed - 27 seeds planted, 27 plants, all potato leaf. (Casey grew next to two RL varieties in 2008) And for Dwarfs: the PL dwarfs - four different ones, 100 seeds planted, 100 plants, all dwarf, all PL the RL dwarfs - two different ones - 50 seeds planted, 50 plants, all dwarf, all RL. I've yet to transplant KBX, Kimberly, Lillian's Yellow, Lucky Cross, Little Lucky, Yellow Brandywine (all PL) and 4 other dwarfs... will report on those when I finish the transplanting. I was pretty shocked to see this - I expect up to 5% crossing, but this was very encouraging to see. just thought it was interesting enough to share. __________________ Craig

March 28, 2010	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	We have plenty of bees around in our area (all sorts - bumbles, honeys, wilds) - I think it is more that there are much more attractive targets for the bees, and that the flowers are doing what they should do - self pollinate just as they open, so even bee visits after that would not cause crossing, because the deed is already done. It hums around here in the summer time! __________________ Craig

March 28, 2010	#5
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	I'm happy to hear of your lack of accidental crosses, Craig! Every year I swear I will start bagging and then when the times comes, so much other summer stuff happens (vacations, relatives visiting etc....) that my good intentions fall by the wayside. If YOU don't bag, then I won't feel so negligent. Last summer I did end up with an interesting possible cross(?) in some some Cherokee Chocolate seeds that I saved four years ago. The surprise fruit was a deep intense red, without the blackish cast, and very good flavor for last year's cool summer. I can't find my garden map from 2006, but since I tend to plant alphabetically, it's likely Cuostralee was on one side and a possible pollen donor. I am growing a couple of F2's this year to see what happens next. __________________ Dee ************** Last edited by ddsack; March 28, 2010 at 10:04 PM.

March 28, 2010	#6
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	Ooooh, Cuostralee crossing with Cherokee Chocolate... he says with hand held high hoping for a few seeds if the F2s prove interesting! Lee P.S. Very little crossing noted here on the other side of the county from Craig. Bees do visit, but I agree with Craig in that it may be after the true pollination is complete. __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

March 28, 2010	#9
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Interesting, Dee. The interior structure is much more like Cuostralee than Cherokee Chocolate. The Cherokees tend to have small locules randomly distributed across the slide, rather than the large central flesh mass and larger locules around the outer edge. __________________ Craig

March 28, 2010	#2
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	Some lack of crossing may be due to the bee population shrinking.

March 28, 2010	#7
Paul R Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Avilla IN Posts: 300	Interesting, thanks for the post nctomatoman. If there is more testing you are doing please keep us up to date.

March 29, 2010	#11
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	Dee, You probably had a no-heat summer like I had last year, since we are pretty much in the same general area. Absolutely ALL my dark variety tomatoes looked really crummy last year. Many had a rather yellow/brown color instead of the nice brown/purple color they should have had. But since you said it had a nice dark red color, the chances are it was some kind of cross. None of my darks were red instead. Carol