Coyote - a white tomato?

[Fert1]

I was just curious if the cherry/currant Coyote is considered a "white" tomato. They are pale enough I would think they would qualify. Anyone know?

[nctomatoman]

It isn't the whitest I've grown or seen, but the blossom end half, especially, could be described as a shade of white...gets more yellow at the shoulder, has an interesting translucence to it.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fert1

I was just curious if the cherry/currant Coyote is considered a "white" tomato. They are pale enough I would think they would qualify. Anyone know?

Holly, Craig has answered you and he's the one who introduced Coyote to others, but I just wanted to say that even those varieties that have white as part of the name, or otherwise said to be white, are not absolutely white tomatoes.

how "white" a variety might be is dependent on the variety itself, the degree of foliage cover and the degree of UV. Most are ivory to a pale yellow to a deeper yellow.

For me the whitest and best tasting one, many I find bland, is the variety White Queen. That's of the large fruited ones.

Of the cherries many like Snowwhite, bred by Joe Bratka and his other white ones not as good perhaps, of Super Snowwhite, Rabbit, ghost, and then there's Mirabelle Blanche and also the variety Dr. Carolyn, which has inherited some of the good taste genes from Galina, from which it came.

And yes, there are still other white varieties, many of them, which I think in general are best for wowing your family with a white sauce to pour over white pasta.

[Fert1]

I was just curious as to whether it is officially considered a "white" tomato. I know white tomatoes are not really white. I actually grew Dr. Carolyn one year, because I tried it at a tasting and liked it a lot. My Coyote tomatoes are turning out about the same color as Dr. Carolyn. I hadn't realized it was such a pale tomato, but the flavor is good.

[nctomatoman]

Holly, what I find interesting about Coyote - perhaps because of its small size and that translucent quality to its flesh - is that the blossom end can almost seem very pale green/white, whereas with the larger white fruited varieties, you can get a pale pink cast at the blossom end. I think it is due to the fact that the seed gel of Coyote can stay green for some time.

[Fert1]

I've noticed that if you leave the Coyote fruit on much longer, they will eventually turn completely yellow, at which point they are extremely sweet and no longer taste like a tomato. At the white stage, they have a good tomato flavor. They still taste good when fully yellow, but it's more like a very sweet berry flavor. I've heard people say the same of SunGold, but I think it's even more pronounced with the Coyote tomatoes.

[lefty_logan]

Does anybody know if Coytoe is part L. pimpinellifolium?

[hasshoes]

Coyote, unlike any tomato I've ever grown, IMO can taste like 10 different tomatoes depending on mostly WHEN you pick it (whitish . . . in between. . . or very yellow) AND the growing conditions. My early coyotees have never tasted like my main season ones, and the end of the season ones can taste different as well. Sometimes for me they are sweet, other times "tomato-y" other times "wine-y" I like them when they have a complex "wine-y" taste- but it can be too much for some people, and at times during certain weather and picking periods the wine taste can *almost* be gross or overpowering- especially to people that aren't huge tom. fans :0)

Of course, I've only grown it three years on several plants a year, and in crazy New England to boot, so other people may have diff. experiences. :0)

BTW Holly- glad you've still gotten beyond that nasty soil funk of yours. :0) I had Bacterial PIth Necrosis in my newly amended $oil ;0) last year, and Sungold was the only thing that really beat it. :0)

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by lefty_logan

Does anybody know if Coytoe is part L. pimpinellifolium?

Not from a documented source.

It's listed in the SSE YEarbook in the other species section and here's a few words gleaned from some listers from the 2010 Yearbook:

yellow currant
wild type
small currant type
regular leaf
regular leaf

I don't know the folks who are listing it so I don't know if they're just taking descriptions for former listers, which often happens. or if they know how to tell a Pimp from a non-pimp. And I don't know if they know how to distinguish between a true pimp and a cerasiforme such as Matt's Wild.

Two folks said regular leaf, but if they'd grown currant varieties before I wouldn't' have expected them to say regular leaf.

Best I can do, and I've never heard of anyone reporting any particular problems with it in terms of crossing, but then only about half the pimps have exherted stigmas anyway. I haven't grown it so can't add any personal experience.

[Fusion_power]

Based on growing it several times, I suspect that Coyote has Pimpinellifolium in its background but it is distant. It is a rampant vine with very heavy production of small translucent pale yellow fruit. Leaf form is is a jagged regular leaf which is one reason I suspect has a currant background.

DarJones

[hasshoes]

Well I don't know how to tell a pimp from a non-pimp or even know what that means but my coyote leaves and plants in general have always looked different than my "regular leaved" plants. The leaves have always been smaller and the plants have always sent up a bunch of, I dunno, "main" stems, kind of like a crab grass or something.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Based on growing it several times, I suspect that Coyote has Pimpinellifolium in its background but it is distant. It is a rampant vine with very heavy production of small translucent pale yellow fruit. Leaf form is is a jagged regular leaf which is one reason I suspect has a currant background.

DarJones

Darrel, we posted about the same time so perhaps you didn't see my post.

If it were a true currant the stems and leaves would have been hairy and the leaves very narrow and usually lighter in color than non-pimps.

Did you see that? I mean those stems and leaves really are hairy with a true currant.

[Fert1]

Hasshoes, I've mainly gotten over the soil funk by switching to container growing. However, SunGold, Coyote, and my F2 cherry I'm trying to stabilize all seem immune to whatever it is. Most cherry types seem to withstand it, but everything else falters. I tried growing the wilt resistant variety of Rutgers last year. While it held up longer than most, it eventually did succumb. Some cherries truly seem to be immune to it completely though.

Coyote really is an unusual little cherry, and I agree the flavor can vary quite a lot. To me the really ripe ones do not taste even remotely like a tomato, but they taste good. I tried some my sister-in-law is growing from plants I gave her, and hers tasted different from mine. Hers were also much larger than mine, but the plants themselves were smaller than mine. Go figure!

[Fert1]

Originally Posted by hasshoes

Well I don't know how to tell a pimp from a non-pimp or even know what that means but my coyote leaves and plants in general have always looked different than my "regular leaved" plants. The leaves have always been smaller and the plants have always sent up a bunch of, I dunno, "main" stems, kind of like a crab grass or something.

Yes, it is very bushy, with lots of side shoots off the main stem. Mine is doing that too. I haven't really paid much attention to the leaves. I haven't noticed them being "hairy." Now I want to go outside with a flashlight and check. LOL!

[Fusion_power]

Carolyn,

My primary reason for suspecting it has Piminellifolium in the background is that it has the jagged leaf and multiple stem traits. These are not found to that degree in pure Esculentum. The trichomes and stomata are very similar to Cerasiforme. So my best guess is that it is derived from a cross of cerasiforme X Pimpinellifolium but I would be hard pressed to prove it other than to note that some of the traits are common to those two groups.

DarJones