Recipe for using waste crabs/saltwater fish/shrimp?

stormymater · June 29, 2010

Want to begin using a wonderful local resource to make compost - the folks who have this wonderfully stinky mix are interested in changing it from a horribly stinky waste product to compost/fertilizer.

Any recipes out there?
We've got room & plenty of product so any recs would be most appreciated.

FILMNET · June 29, 2010

http://www.neptunesharvest.com/
I use this fish/seaweed fertilizer, look at this website under product info
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/al...98.217.222.178
here is another one i use, really stinks

FILMNET · June 29, 2010

great read here

The main differences between Fish Emulsions, Solubles or "so called" Hydrolyzed Fish Concentrates with the Nitrogen being four or greater, and Neptune's Harvest Hydrolyzed Fish are as follows:
Neptune's Harvest...
Uses several species of fishNeptune's Harvest is made from several species of edible North Atlantic Fish remains (the part that is left after the fillet is removed for human consumption). Several species are better, because each species has a different nutrients analysis profile, so you get a full range of nutrients, vitamins, amino acids, enzymes and growth hormones. We mix all the Hydrolyzed Fish in a 10,000-gallon mixing tank before it is pumped into holding tanks. This process ensures a very consistent product from day to day and year to year. The fish we use are caught a minimum of three miles from shore and usually much further, in the icy, clean waters of the North Atlantic.

Emulsions...
One type of fish (trash fish)Emulsions are made from so-called "Trash Fish" (fish that Americans won't eat), usually Menhaden is used. Menhaden is caught in harbors and rivers on the coast and are exposed to coastal pollutants. Also, lake fish used could contain Mercury and PCB's.

Neptune's Harvest...
No offensive odorNeptune's Harvest unloads fishing boats, cuts the fish, grinds the fish remains and stabilizes them all the same day, so there is no offensive odor. Fresh fish does not smell.

Emulsions...
Stink!
Neptune's Harvest...
Cold processedNeptune's Harvest is cold processed all the way from start to finish. The fish is converted through the grinding process and by the naturally occurring enzymes that continually break down the fish into a liquid. These enzymes are still alive in our final product as well, so they are there to keep your soil alive. We then screen it to take out any remaining bone particles. Nothing else is removed from the product, and the only thing added is phosphoric acid to stabilize. It is more expensive than sulfuric or formic acid, but it is safer to use for our employees and yours and is something the plant needs anyway. This is why our phosphorus is higher than fish emulsions, on the analysis.

Emulsions...
CookedEmulsions first remove the fish meal (protein) part of the fish and sell that for pet food. Then they remove oils from the fish for Codfish Liver Oil or related procedures. Whatever is left after these processes is then boiled down to a 50% solution and sold as a fertilizer. This process has two major problems. First, the steam they use to remove the meal from the fish frame comes from municipal water, which contains chlorine. When the product is boiled down to a 50% solution, the chlorine is doubled and can be as high as 14% in the final product. Second, no matter what anyone tells you, you cannot evaporate a liquid down to a 50% solution without the use of heat. Once heat is used, all the heat sensitive vitamins, amino acids, growth hormones and the enzymes are destroyed. Some companies add enzymes back into the product so they can call it a hydrolyzed process, but technically it is far from it, and is actually just a hydrolyzed emulsion. Note: Fish naturally contain approximately 2.3% Nitrogen, it must be boiled down (or evaporated). Therefore it has been heated, no matter what the salesperson try's to tell you, the heat sensitive components from the fish are gone. The only other possibility is that it has added Nitrogen from other sources.

Neptune's Harvest...
No oils removedNeptune's Harvest is screened through an 80 mesh screen going into the holding tank and then a 200 micron screen going into the drums or 4500 gallon tanker truck. It is the consistency of chocolate milk and is very easy to apply.

Emulsions...
Oils removedEmulsions are thick, having the consistency of molasses. They are hard to handle and notorious for clogging sprayers and getting stuck in holding tanks. Because they are so thick, farmers often can't pump it all from their tanks, especially toward the bottom.

I N S U M M A R Y . . .

Neptune's Harvest
Emulsions - Uses several species of fish - 1 type of fish (trash fish) - No offensive odor - Stinks - Cold processed - Cooked - No oils removed - Oils removed - No meal removed (except Fillet) - Meal removed - No chlorine - Contains chlorine - Won't clog equipment - Clogs equipment Application Directions for Farmers

Click Here to return to the main Product Information page

stormymater · June 29, 2010

OK - no 10,000 gallon tank here LOL! Imagining inviting Mike Rowe in to help with that first cleaning...
Been thinking of a drier process - as in composting with sawdust rather than a liquid route. Can grind the crustaceans & fish carcasses before layering...

Needless to say I am most interested as I am loathe to get any more herbicide tainted manure.

dice · July 4, 2010

Looks like you just grind them up and plow them in, historically.
(Horseshoe crabs were a major fertilizer source on the East
Coast of the US before the 1960s.) China had a big shrimp
fertilizer business at one time.

You can probably add them to compost or just till them into
the beds. Bacteria trying to digest the (high-carbon) sawdust
would suck all of the nitrogen up.

stormymater · July 4, 2010

Thanks dice - we're thinking of the sawdust as a way to soak up the... uh... effluent this particular goodness gives off - I like the compost idea though I hate both the thought of dragging my compost out of the back to the truck to my pals almost as much as I hate the thought of bringing cans of STINKING mix to my own compost pile (Mr. Jerk raccoon would be utterly in his glory though).

I definitely will be digging in "product" to my beds & buckets once it cools off this fall however.

dice · July 4, 2010

This might be a good time to apply some of the Essential
Microorganisms techniques (lactobacilli cultures, etc, which
have a reputation for neutralizing offensive odors of decaying
organic matter):
http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemic...8-51fdf4f013ad

You could try a test: make up some lactobacillus culture,
get a bucketful of shellfish waste, mix it with compost,
spray it, see what happens.

June 29, 2010	#1
stormymater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pleasure Island, NC 8a Posts: 1,162	Recipe for using waste crabs/saltwater fish/shrimp? Want to begin using a wonderful local resource to make compost - the folks who have this wonderfully stinky mix are interested in changing it from a horribly stinky waste product to compost/fertilizer. Any recipes out there? We've got room & plenty of product so any recs would be most appreciated.

June 29, 2010	#3
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	thier story about fish great read here The main differences between Fish Emulsions, Solubles or "so called" Hydrolyzed Fish Concentrates with the Nitrogen being four or greater, and Neptune's Harvest Hydrolyzed Fish are as follows: Neptune's Harvest... Uses several species of fishNeptune's Harvest is made from several species of edible North Atlantic Fish remains (the part that is left after the fillet is removed for human consumption). Several species are better, because each species has a different nutrients analysis profile, so you get a full range of nutrients, vitamins, amino acids, enzymes and growth hormones. We mix all the Hydrolyzed Fish in a 10,000-gallon mixing tank before it is pumped into holding tanks. This process ensures a very consistent product from day to day and year to year. The fish we use are caught a minimum of three miles from shore and usually much further, in the icy, clean waters of the North Atlantic. Emulsions... One type of fish (trash fish)Emulsions are made from so-called "Trash Fish" (fish that Americans won't eat), usually Menhaden is used. Menhaden is caught in harbors and rivers on the coast and are exposed to coastal pollutants. Also, lake fish used could contain Mercury and PCB's. Neptune's Harvest... No offensive odorNeptune's Harvest unloads fishing boats, cuts the fish, grinds the fish remains and stabilizes them all the same day, so there is no offensive odor. Fresh fish does not smell. Emulsions... Stink! Neptune's Harvest... Cold processedNeptune's Harvest is cold processed all the way from start to finish. The fish is converted through the grinding process and by the naturally occurring enzymes that continually break down the fish into a liquid. These enzymes are still alive in our final product as well, so they are there to keep your soil alive. We then screen it to take out any remaining bone particles. Nothing else is removed from the product, and the only thing added is phosphoric acid to stabilize. It is more expensive than sulfuric or formic acid, but it is safer to use for our employees and yours and is something the plant needs anyway. This is why our phosphorus is higher than fish emulsions, on the analysis. Emulsions... CookedEmulsions first remove the fish meal (protein) part of the fish and sell that for pet food. Then they remove oils from the fish for Codfish Liver Oil or related procedures. Whatever is left after these processes is then boiled down to a 50% solution and sold as a fertilizer. This process has two major problems. First, the steam they use to remove the meal from the fish frame comes from municipal water, which contains chlorine. When the product is boiled down to a 50% solution, the chlorine is doubled and can be as high as 14% in the final product. Second, no matter what anyone tells you, you cannot evaporate a liquid down to a 50% solution without the use of heat. Once heat is used, all the heat sensitive vitamins, amino acids, growth hormones and the enzymes are destroyed. Some companies add enzymes back into the product so they can call it a hydrolyzed process, but technically it is far from it, and is actually just a hydrolyzed emulsion. Note: Fish naturally contain approximately 2.3% Nitrogen, it must be boiled down (or evaporated). Therefore it has been heated, no matter what the salesperson try's to tell you, the heat sensitive components from the fish are gone. The only other possibility is that it has added Nitrogen from other sources. Neptune's Harvest... No oils removedNeptune's Harvest is screened through an 80 mesh screen going into the holding tank and then a 200 micron screen going into the drums or 4500 gallon tanker truck. It is the consistency of chocolate milk and is very easy to apply. Emulsions... Oils removedEmulsions are thick, having the consistency of molasses. They are hard to handle and notorious for clogging sprayers and getting stuck in holding tanks. Because they are so thick, farmers often can't pump it all from their tanks, especially toward the bottom. I N S U M M A R Y . . . Neptune's Harvest Emulsions - Uses several species of fish - 1 type of fish (trash fish) - No offensive odor - Stinks - Cold processed - Cooked - No oils removed - Oils removed - No meal removed (except Fillet) - Meal removed - No chlorine - Contains chlorine - Won't clog equipment - Clogs equipment Application Directions for Farmers Click Here to return to the main Product Information page

July 4, 2010	#5
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Looks like you just grind them up and plow them in, historically. (Horseshoe crabs were a major fertilizer source on the East Coast of the US before the 1960s.) China had a big shrimp fertilizer business at one time. You can probably add them to compost or just till them into the beds. Bacteria trying to digest the (high-carbon) sawdust would suck all of the nitrogen up. __________________ -- alias

July 4, 2010	#7
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	This might be a good time to apply some of the Essential Microorganisms techniques (lactobacilli cultures, etc, which have a reputation for neutralizing offensive odors of decaying organic matter): http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemic...8-51fdf4f013ad You could try a test: make up some lactobacillus culture, get a bucketful of shellfish waste, mix it with compost, spray it, see what happens. __________________ -- alias