Green Copia

[Farmer Matt]

Hi everyone, what is a green copia look like when it get's ripe.

Thank's

[Delizzy]

The best way to tell when a green when ripe tomato is ready to eat, is to get touchy-feely with it. When you give it a gentle squeeze, it will give some when it is ripe. You might have to experiment a bit to find the amount of "give" that has the best flavor for you.

Delizzy

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Farmer Matt

Hi everyone, what is a green copia look likewhen it get's ripe.

Thank's

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

There are two easy ways to look at what a variety sohuold look like when it's ripe.

Above I've linked to a Google Images search which shows you many pictures of Copia when it's ripe. Just go to Google, click on IMAGES at the top left and enter the name of the tomato.

The second way to determine the traits of a variety, what seed sources are available and for most varieties a picture, is to go to Tania's Tomato databse where over 3000 varities are described:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Main_Page

For the above you can start by clicking on the data base in alphabetical order for varieties and then there are separate lists for fruit color, origin and so much more.

[travis]

I've heard green Copia referred to as Harvard Square. Is this the same tomato?

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Harvard_Square

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Green_Copia

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

I've heard green Copia referred to as Harvard Square. Is this the same tomato?

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Harvard_Square

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Green_Copia

And now I'm laughinh a bit b'c the poster in the first post said a green copia, not capitalized so I thought the question being asked was what did Copia look like when ripe.

The variety Green Copia is a different matter as indicated in the link above.

Whether it's Green Copia or Harvard Square I don't know if anyone can be sure. What it's not is a GWRipe variety.

I looked in the 2010 SSE YEarbook trying to figure out the dates of introduction and who sent what to whom and when, and Andrey did say a US source for Copia and said he named it Green Copia b'c it didn't look like Copia and said he grew them in 2006 and 2007.

Tania says 5-10 oz , seeds from France and Andrey says 200 to 500 grams, so some fruits can be over a pound.

Additional info at Tania's site says Andrey got the seeds in 2004/2005 for what he called Green Copia from John H of Moscow Idaho who sent him the variety Copia.

For Harvard Square Martin apparently first listed this one in 2006 and says seeds from an individual in Sparta, WI, which must be not that far from him since Martin also lives in WI. Martin says tri-color beefsteak up to a pound and light green plus red stripes.

Neil L says bi-color fruit, says 4-8 oz and seeds from Martin in 2006. Al Anderson says multi-color green/yellow/orange and red and says 6-8 oz.

Interesting that no one says anyhing at all about taste.

For Green Copia both Tania and Andrey say sweet taste.

In the 2006 YEarbook there is no listing for either Harvard Square or Green Copia.

In the 2007 Yearbook there is a listing for Harvard Square by Martin and no Green Copia listing.

Both Neil and Al say they got the seeds from Martin in 2006 and even tho Martin didn't list it until 2007 I don't find that unusual b/c I've sent seeds from a season in the Fall when the Yearbook listing wouldn't come out until the next late Jan/Feb.

OK, so put the dots together.

I'm leaning towards Martin getting the seeds from someone in WI, but Martin doesn't say when he got the seeds, but I can't see Martin sitting on seeds as early as 2004/2005 when Andrey said he got the seeds from John H in Idaho that were Copia seeds, without listing them as he did in 2007 and could have distributed seeds for them in the Fall of 2006.

So is John H in Idaho the original person who found and named it Harvard Square, not likely since he sent Copia seeds to Andrey,or did Martin name it Harvard Square but his source for what he named harvard Square was not John H. of Idaho.

The earliest reference to Copia morphing into Green Copia is Andrey receiving seeds from John H in 2004/2005, so whout further data it seems that there was a cross or mutation in JOhn H's tomato patch of Copia and those seeds sent to Andrey.

Tania mentions that Green Copia is not genetically stable.

About the French connection. Andrey trades seeds with lots of folks all over the place and it seems reasonable to suggest that he traded seeds of what he called Green Copia with the French source(s) Tania lists.

Ok, I tried connecting the dots now it's someone else's turn and besides, TV tennis watching starts in 20 min.

[travis]

After reading your notes and looking through my yearbooks, I tend to think Copia was unstable enough to give more than one person on more than one continent similar changes in appearance and producing tomatoes that, in pictures anyway, look much the same but have two different names.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

After reading your notes and looking through my yearbooks, I tend to think Copia was unstable enough to give more than one person on more than one continent similar changes in appearance and producing tomatoes that, in pictures anyway, look much the same but have two different names.

If so it wouldn't be the first time that that's occurred. But I wonder where the variety name Harvard Square came from.

[travis]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If so it wouldn't be the first time that that's occurred. But I wonder where the variety name Harvard Square came from.

Don't know for sure, but mine came from Wisconsin in an envelope marked "Harvard Square - a green Copia" is all I know, plus the fellow's SSE code initials.

[frogsleap farm]

I grew both last year, and for me they were different. Harvard Square was a pleasant taste surprize, Green Copia was not. Both were bi/tricolor striped greens (along with BTD), but that's where the similarity ended.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

Don't know for sure, but mine came from Wisconsin in an envelope marked "Harvard Square - a green Copia" is all I know, plus the fellow's SSE code initials.

That answers the question for me since neither the other WI source or the ID source were noted to be SSE members with their codes noted.

Mark, this is a twofer so thanks for weighing in and noting that for you Harvard Square and Green Copia were not the same.

[travis]

Yes, Mark settled my question right there.

[Iva]

Originally Posted by travis

After reading your notes and looking through my yearbooks, I tend to think Copia was unstable enough to give more than one person on more than one continent similar changes in appearance and producing tomatoes that, in pictures anyway, look much the same but have two different names.

I had that happen to me this year. I grew out Copia seeds I originally purchased at TGSC (Tomato Growers Supply Company) in 2007. I always had great success with their seeds.

In sowing the original seeds (and I've sown them three times before) I got one plant that threw out smaller heart shaped tomatoes with green, bronze and dark red stripes and dark green-purple shoulders. It tasted great so I saved seeds and will be growing it out next year. Shared some seeds with other growers so we can see what this turns into. I call this Dark Copia Heart for my own reference.

I've grown Green Copia before and this one is greatly different.

So it is also my guess that Copia as a variety is not stable in the first place...

[carolyn137]

Was this thread rejuvenated when I linked to it in answer to Carol Knapp's mention of Harvard Square which was in that thread about tricolor varieties?

Now I'll have to go look and find that tricolor thread where I linked to this thread to see if Carol or others have responded.

Edited to add that I just checked the tri-color thread and my link to Carol is still the last one in that thread with the link to now this Green Copia thread rejuvenated. If only I could be rejuvenated so easily. ( smile)