Likeliest reason for a Reg leaf Orlov Yellow?

[walkinggin]

I grew Orlov yellow(PL) for the first time this year. 7-8 seeds germinated but two were RL. One of the RL lingered for a few months in a 32 oz container, when it began to set fruit I took pity and moved it to a 3 gal. container.

It produced 2 small (3 & 4.5 oz) gold beefsteak shape, like a mini Orlov Yellow with excellent taste, smooth texure, no core.

Is it likely that this is an F1 cross? A stray seed? The only other gold I grew was Aunt Gertie's also PL and they were started weeks apart. I believe Tania did a germination test when I reported the RL's and she got all PL's.

Ginny

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by walkinggin

I grew Orlov yellow(PL) for the first time this year. 7-8 seeds germinated but two were RL. One of the RL lingered for a few months in a 32 oz container, when it began to set fruit I took pity and moved it to a 3 gal. container.

It produced 2 small (3 & 4.5 oz) gold beefsteak shape, like a mini Orlov Yellow with excellent taste, smooth texure, no core.

Is it likely that this is an F1 cross? A stray seed? The only other gold I grew was Aunt Gertie's also PL and they were started weeks apart. I believe Tania did a germination test when I reported the RL's and she got all PL's.

Ginny

Ginny, are we to assume that you got the seeds from Tania and that you grew them out for the first time this year?

If so no crossing is possible with your AGG or anything in your garden this season.

I think your communication should really be directly with Tania if that's where you got the seeds from.

She tested some and got all PL's, so now you're asking others if it could be stray seeds since you got 2 RL's.

I really do suggest that you should be in direct communication with Tania about this rather than asking others here what the possibilities are. Tania has grown out more Orlov seeds than I think anyone has and could more easily comment on the possibility of getting 2 RL's out of 8 seeds.

I'd suggest a couple of stray seeds from your seed stash if it weren't for the fact that you say they look like mini-Orlovs.

[walkinggin]

Carolyn,

I probably could have expressed myself more clearly and I am sorry if it sounded as though I was "filing" a complaint which was not my intent. Actually, I really don't think it was a stray seed on either end, I mentioned the possibility because I assumed that would be the first question.

The RL "Orlov" was very similar in every way but size to my other Orlov Yellows and because of the constrained growing conditions I think the size may be a result of environmental factors.

I suppose what I am wondering more generally is if a PL can change to a RL in some instances or if a possible cross (F1?)could have resulted in a RL gold fruit?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by walkinggin

Carolyn,

I probably could have expressed myself more clearly and I am sorry if it sounded as though I was "filing" a complaint which was not my intent. Actually, I really don't think it was a stray seed on either end, I mentioned the possibility because I assumed that would be the first question.

The RL "Orlov" was very similar in every way but size to my other Orlov Yellows and because of the constrained growing conditions I think the size may be a result of environmental factors.

I suppose what I am wondering more generally is if a PL can change to a RL in some instances or if a possible cross (F1?)could have resulted in a RL gold fruit?

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Orlov_Yellow

First I had to look up Orlov Yellow b'c I've not grown it. Tania describes it as orange and Neil L says yellow, so here we have the problem of color between the yellow/orange/gold fruits.

Yes, a PL can become an RL if it crosses with an RL b'c RL is dominant to PL, which is a recessive gene. But when crosses happen like that one usually does not get anything that looks like the original PL in that F1 hybrid.

What you grew this season could have crossed with the AGG you mentioned, but you wouldn't know that until your saved seeds were grown out next year. And since Orlov and AGG are both PL the F1 would be PL.

So I don't think the answer has anything to do with crossing in your garden this summer, whether it be with another PL, or an RL.

So I think it goes back to the original seeds you got from Tania since you say that your RL was the same as your PL Orlov, except much smaller fruits.

Does that help?

[Tania]

Hi Ginny,

If you got RLs, it could be either a cross or stray seeds, it is hard to say until you grow the RL seeds again.

Last year I had few folks reporting some RLs from my Gary'O Sena seeds and someone reported RL from Orlov Yellow seeds (may be you?), so some crossing or mixup was possible, at least in one of the seed batches.

With Orlov seeds, I'd say seed mixup would be less likely, the way the fruits were collected and seed saved - there were no other yellow/orange varieties close by at that time.

I am not an expert in tomato genetics, but I'd think to get a yellow/orange fruit in the first generation, it had to cross with a yellow/orange tomato. I can take a look what I grew in 2009 and see other yellow/orange tomatoes it may have crossed with.

Carolyn, I have to admit I sometimes have trouble to determine whether a tomato fruit is orange or golden . Having said that, my Orlov Yellow looks much more like KBX in color, perhaps just a shade lighter.

Tania

[Tania]

Ginny,

I forgot to mention that the small fruit size may have something to do with a small container - you mentioned you put it into 3 gal pot, right? 3 gal pot would be a bit too small for Orlov...

Tania

[carolyn137]

Carolyn, I have to admit I sometimes have trouble to determine whether a tomato fruit is orange or golden . Having said that, my Orlov Yellow looks much more like KBX in color, perhaps just a shade lighter.


*****

Tania, when I look at your pictures of Orlov Yellow they look orange to me .

Ami had just started a separate thread about Orlov Yellow, with pictures, and his look orange to me as well.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Carolyn, I have to admit I sometimes have trouble to determine whether a tomato fruit is orange or golden . Having said that, my Orlov Yellow looks much more like KBX in color, perhaps just a shade lighter.


*****

Tania, when I look at your pictures of Orlov Yellow they look orange to me .

Ami had just started a separate thread about Orlov Yellow, with pictures, and his look orange to me as well.

Phew... This means that I got this one right.

[walkinggin]

Thanks Carolyn and Tania,

I mainly brought this up because I really liked the RL "Orlov" whatever it is and would like to grow it again so am curious about what to expect next year because unfortunately I don't have enough space for too many experiments.

I completely agree that the size of the fruit is probably related to the size of the container. Poor thing should have felt grateful I didn't leave it to languish in the half gallon container.

Regarding the color, as an artist who spends a good deal of time teaching undergraduates all about color I can say that like taste, color indentification is very individual. I was trying to split the difference between pure yellow and pure orange by calling it gold, but I may be unclear about the color conventions in the world of tomatoes

My knowledge of genetics is weak but maybe you could tell me if this sounds correct:

If I start 20 seeds saved from (2010) RL Orlov:
if all turn ou to be RL that means either my RL Orlov was a stray seed of a stable but unknown variety or (2010) RL Orlov is the result of a mutation

if the 20 seeds give me a mix of PL and RL then most likely the 20 seeds represent the F2 generation of an accidental cross.

Thanks
Ginny

[Lee]

I'd say Orange also.



Mine was from Neil and was PL..... poor location, but decent production including a 18oz. fruit.

Lee

[Tania]

Orlov Yellow is much more productive than KBS or Kellogg's Breakfast in my garden.

Neil Lockhart got his Orlov seeds from Geza Korbely from Hungary, so did I.

Tania