Noire de Cousebauf, and Purple Calabash

domoarimato · June 19, 2006

The post about crossing SFT made me start to wonder abou something. I realize that a good percentage of named cultivars out there are just selections, and/or renamings of all ready known cultivars. (ditto what I said about Sft, Carrotlike, and Carrot in the other post.) Back this winter I was looking through some old notes and photos, and noticed a number of striking similarities between the two varities I mentioned in the subject heading of this post. Of course I have six plants of each growing right side by side in my garden right now, and am arduously taking notes and photographic documentation. The difference in leaf type is indiscernable to my eyes, as is the distance between internodes for the blooms. A number of other striking similarities resound as well. What I have no prior photographic documentation of is the fruit set of NdC... If memory serves me correctly, it also is very scalloped like PC. I was wondering if any of you out there in Tomatoville that have any previous experience with the two varieties have made the same observations, or if I am way off mark here. I shall have more of a bias to draw from in about 10 days when the fruits are more developed and starting to reveal their true selves unto me, but my question is... Could this also be the same tomato, only selected and preserved in different regions of our little spinning play-dough ball. Anybody with any experience with both please share your insight with me! (Mrs. C, I know has grown both, and perhaps Craig too). Curiouser, and Curiouser-Bri

**carolyn137** · June 19, 2006

Brian,

I don't like the taste of either one, but that's not the point.

I find them to be quite different as to fruit size and shape.

Noire des Cosebeauf is beautiful with very regular prominent scalloping on the somewhat flattish fruits while Purple Calabash has ribbing that is more random is the best way I can put it and fruit shape is more random as well.

I don't have a clear picture of the history of either one prior to their listing in the SSE Yearbook although I'm pretty sure that Purple Calabash preceded Noire des Cosebeauf, time wise. There's also a Red Calabash.

I never recorded cluster size and don't remember it, but if you've got 6 of each growing you should have a good opportunity to see directly the differences I'm remembering.

What is your seed source for both of them?

**nctomatoman** · June 19, 2006

Good point, and I am trying Noire de Coeusboeuf for the first time this year. As young seedlings it and Purple Calabash are certainly very similar looking. I should have grown them side by side this year, but garden space was at a premium.

I also wonder if there is variability in Purple Calabash - they were smallish to medium sized when I grew them, but in the Monticello garden were much larger - nearly a pound in some cases (I am sure their soil is richer than mine!).

I will take some pics of the fruit of Noire de Coeusboeuf this year....and perhaps someone will bring Purple Calabash to Tomatopalooza so we can do a comparison.

domoarimato · June 19, 2006

Carolyn, I received Purple Calabash some years ago from Bill Minkey. The Noire des (however you spell it) came from lil ol you

!

Craig, I too will post some photos of both as the season progresses. I really wish that I could be the one bringing the Purple Calabash to Tomatopalooza 4, but, unfortunately,that ain't likely!-Bri

June 19, 2006	#1
domoarimato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 29	Noire de Cousebauf, and Purple Calabash The post about crossing SFT made me start to wonder abou something. I realize that a good percentage of named cultivars out there are just selections, and/or renamings of all ready known cultivars. (ditto what I said about Sft, Carrotlike, and Carrot in the other post.) Back this winter I was looking through some old notes and photos, and noticed a number of striking similarities between the two varities I mentioned in the subject heading of this post. Of course I have six plants of each growing right side by side in my garden right now, and am arduously taking notes and photographic documentation. The difference in leaf type is indiscernable to my eyes, as is the distance between internodes for the blooms. A number of other striking similarities resound as well. What I have no prior photographic documentation of is the fruit set of NdC... If memory serves me correctly, it also is very scalloped like PC. I was wondering if any of you out there in Tomatoville that have any previous experience with the two varieties have made the same observations, or if I am way off mark here. I shall have more of a bias to draw from in about 10 days when the fruits are more developed and starting to reveal their true selves unto me, but my question is... Could this also be the same tomato, only selected and preserved in different regions of our little spinning play-dough ball. Anybody with any experience with both please share your insight with me! (Mrs. C, I know has grown both, and perhaps Craig too). Curiouser, and Curiouser-Bri

June 19, 2006	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Brian, I don't like the taste of either one, but that's not the point. I find them to be quite different as to fruit size and shape. Noire des Cosebeauf is beautiful with very regular prominent scalloping on the somewhat flattish fruits while Purple Calabash has ribbing that is more random is the best way I can put it and fruit shape is more random as well. I don't have a clear picture of the history of either one prior to their listing in the SSE Yearbook although I'm pretty sure that Purple Calabash preceded Noire des Cosebeauf, time wise. There's also a Red Calabash. I never recorded cluster size and don't remember it, but if you've got 6 of each growing you should have a good opportunity to see directly the differences I'm remembering. What is your seed source for both of them? __________________ Carolyn

June 19, 2006	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Good point, and I am trying Noire de Coeusboeuf for the first time this year. As young seedlings it and Purple Calabash are certainly very similar looking. I should have grown them side by side this year, but garden space was at a premium. I also wonder if there is variability in Purple Calabash - they were smallish to medium sized when I grew them, but in the Monticello garden were much larger - nearly a pound in some cases (I am sure their soil is richer than mine!). I will take some pics of the fruit of Noire de Coeusboeuf this year....and perhaps someone will bring Purple Calabash to Tomatopalooza so we can do a comparison. __________________ Craig

June 19, 2006	#4
domoarimato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 29	Carolyn, I received Purple Calabash some years ago from Bill Minkey. The Noire des (however you spell it) came from lil ol you! Craig, I too will post some photos of both as the season progresses. I really wish that I could be the one bringing the Purple Calabash to Tomatopalooza 4, but, unfortunately,that ain't likely!-Bri