Exel LG, Actinovate, Mycorrhizal fungi etc

[BigdaddyJ]

I am an organic grower and I'll be using Pro Mix Biofungicide with Bacillus subtilis in it to start my plants. I am interested in learning a little about Exel LG, Actinovate and Mycorrhizal fungi in order to cut down on mostly Early Blight and Septoria spots and specs I get pretty regularly here in my zone 7 Delaware. I have never used any organic treatments besides the Cornell Mixture before nor have I used this biofungicide potting mix before. I would be interested in what other organic growers use and in what amounts and rotations work well and which of these products could interact negatively with each other or be redundant. TIA

[dice]

Mycorrhizae function only in the soil. They are not going to affect
Early Blight or Septoria at all, other than to perhaps make your
plant healthier and more robust against any diseases. For
mycorrhizae, think "root extensions", that is pretty much how
they work.

This site has detailed explanations with diagrams and pictures:
http://mycorrhizas.info/vam.html

[Timmah!]

You can do a keyword search in these forums for each of those words & pull up some in depth threads on the material that should answer any questions you might have.

[amideutch]

All three of the products mentioned are part of my tomato growing regimen. Actinovate and Mycorrhizae are used on seedling plant out as a dip and EXEL LG along with Actinovate as a foliar application for disease control. If you do a Tville search there has been a lot of discussion and information given on these products.

I've been using Actinovate and Mycorrhizae since 2007 and EXEL LG (Agri-Fos) since 2009. I have had excellent results with all. Boomer Cardinale who is the Director of Marketing for Natural Industries who makes Actinovate is a member of Tomatoville. He has been very helpful in answering questions concerning Actinovate and it's compatibility with other products. One of those questions asked was the compatibility of Phosphorous acid (Excel LG) and the microorganism Streptomyces lydicus, the primary ingredient of Actinovate. His answer was that they had done several tests and Actinovate's effectiveness was not affected by Phosphorous acid products. Using both Actinovate and Exel LG together makes a good team as they attack the bad guys differently and Exel LG also works as a systemic attacking disease from within the plant as well.

Another new player on the block is Biota Max found by our own Raybo who has been doing trials on the products mentioned above. I used it in con★★★★★★★★ with Mycorrhizae and Actinovate this year as part of my plant out dip and it looks promising. Raybo is doing a side by side comparison in his "EarthTainers" between Myco Grow and Biota Max. The Biota Max makeup of Bacteria and fungi not only assist in fighting soil borne disease but also in plant vigor as does Myco Grow. An interesting bacteria used in Biota Max "Paenibacillus polymyxa" which does many things but the role it plays in Nitrogen fixation is of particular note. In Raybo's test this can be seen in the comparison of the Myco Grow plant and the Biota Max Innoculated plant. The effectiveness of Biota Max as a foliar does not have much documentation and we can only go by the bacteria and fungi used in the product.

The only other product I have used as a foliar for disease with good results is Azoxystrobin which is derived from mushrooms. Here in Europe it is available at most gardening stores but in the US it seems to be available only to commercial growers. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. Ami

[BigdaddyJ]

Thanx to all, this is good info. And I was hoping you would see this Ami...

One last Q...do you think it would be OK, or overkill even, using my Pro Mix Biofungicide with Bacillus subtilis in it in addition to the above products?

[amideutch]

Don't see any problem. Biota Max and MycoGrow soluble both contain Bac sub. Here is the ingredients of MycoGrow Soluble and Biota Max. Ami

MycoGrow™ Soluble
MycoGrow™ Soluble is similar to Plant Success™ Tabs but is more concentrated, containing more spores and more species, plus other beneficial organisms. Consisting of powdered spore mass rather than tablets, MycoGrow™ Soluble is great for adding to rooting media or commercial potting soils. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments. An ounce is sufficient to treat 125–250 plants covering approximately 250 square feet.
Note: this product cannot be shipped to Hawaii.

Contains concentrated spore mass of the following:
Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus etunicatum, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora monosporum
Ectomycorrhizal fungi Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Laccaria bicolor, Laccaria laccata, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum, Suillus granulatas, Suillus punctatapies
Trichoderma Trichoderma harzianum, Trichoderma konigii
Beneficial Bacteria Bacillus subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus azotoformans, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus pumlis, Bacillus thuringiensis, Bacillus stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Paenibacillus durum, Paenibacillus florescence, Paenibacillus gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, Streptomyces lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, Deinococcus erythromyxa

Biota Max™
Soil Probiotic

Trichoderma harzianum
Trichoderma viride
Trichoderma koningii
Trichoderma polysporum

Bacillus subtilis
Bacillus laterosporus
Bacillus licheniformus
Bacillus megaterium
Bacillus pumilus

Paenibacillus polymyxa

[greyghost]

Ami, all of the information that you and Ray post on these products is
extremely interesting and appreciated! Darlene

[kath]

Originally Posted by greyghost

Ami, all of the information that you and Ray post on these products is
extremely interesting and appreciated! Darlene

Same here, Ami and Ray! I bookmark all these threads for reference and really appreciate all the time, effort and generosity that goes into all your posts and pics whereby you share your experience with the rest of us.
Kath

[casino]

Ami and Ray I feel like I am receiving a college education when reading your posts. I really appreciate all your efforts.
Joe

[walkinggin]

Ami,

Adding my appreciation for all the information and a few questions.

This past season I only got actinovate in time to try it as a foliar spray, but I was really happy with the results. This coming year I plan to try Exel LG as well but I am curious about the frequency which you apply them. My understanding is that you mix them together, then spray them how often? Beginning how soon after planting out?

Finally, would you happen to know whether Actinovate or Exel LG would be adversely affected by Bt(Bacillis Thuringiensis) or vice versa? Hornworms can become a big problem for me so I usually spray my tomatoes with Bt upon planting out, then again a month or so later and I am wondering how to coordinate my spraying schedule.

Ginny

[BigdaddyJ]

Ami I want to join the others in thanking you for all the help you have given....THANX!

[amideutch]

Ginny, I don't really have a set regimen here in Germany as the weather is so unpredictable. Normally twice a month and more often if we start getting rain which is not uncommon here in the summer months.

When I initially set out my plants which is mid May I cover the plants with tubes made out of perforated plastic or reemay. After 4 weeks I remove the covers and that is when I make my first application. And from then on I gauge it to the weather. As the weather warms and the plants get wet from rain so does the conditions for disease become more favorable in which my applications increase.

I grew up in Whittier and remember normally we would get rain in Feb-Mar and that was about it for the year. Havn't researched the compatibility of BT with Actinovate/Exel LG but I don't see a problem with alternating your applications of BT with the Actinovate/Exel LG. BT on plant out, 2 weeks later Actinovate/Exel and so on. You can always reapply either one if a problem arises. But I would keep my applications of BT separate from the fungicides. Ami

[walkinggin]

Thanks for the specificity Ami.

I set out plants on april fool's day most years, usually after the last rains but the weather can still be moist and cloudy during the early part of the day. I think this year I am going to try spraying the actinovate cocktail upon plant out to forestall the possibility of early blight then the Bt 2 weeks later.

Ginny

[mdvpc]

I got some Greencure, which is potassium bicarbonate.

http://www.greencure.net/

Excel lg is Mono- and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid

What advantage is their to using Excel LG vs Greencure?

Greencure does not say it works systemically. Excel LG does.

I have had rust disease in the past, Greencure says it is effective on rust.

[amideutch]

Michael, two different animals with different modes of action. Here is information I posted on Phosphorous acid previously. Ami

Diseases managed with phosphorous acid.
Researchers have found that phosphorous acid
fungicides are especially effective against Oomycete
pathogens, such as Phytophthora, Pythium, and
downy mildews in a number of crops. Our fruit
spray guides list Phytophthora collar rot and root rot
of tree fruits, blueberries, and brambles; strawberry
red stele and leather rot; and grape downy mildew as
targets for phosphorous acid fungicides.
Phosphorous acid is labeled for use on brassicas
(broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower); cucurbits; edible
legumes; Solanaceous crops (eggplant, pepper,
potato, tomato, and tobacco); onions; and a number
of leafy vegetables for management of diseases
caused by Phytophthora, Pythium, Rhizoctonia, and
Fusarium spp. Downy mildews of these crops are
also listed on product labels. Materials containing
phosphorous acid, in general, have performed best
against Phytophthora blight and downy mildews.
Preventive applications were more effective in
reducing season-long severity of disease than those
applied after disease onset.
Phosphorous acid has a direct and possibly
an indirect effect on these pathogens. It inhibits a
particular metabolic process (oxidative
phosphorylation). In addition, some evidence
suggests that phosphorous acid has an indirect effect
by stimulating the plants natural defense response
against pathogen attack. This probably explains the
much broader spectrum of activity observed in many
fungicide efficacy trials. In fruit crops, it has been
found, for instance, that ProPhyt had efficacy against
downy mildew, Phomopsis cane and leaf spot, and
black rot (but not much against powdery mildew) in
grapes. There is also evidence of activity of these
compounds against anthracnose in blueberries.
The phosphonate ion is highly systemic and
fairly stable in plants. The systemic activity allows
them to be applied as foliar fungicides for prevention
of Phytophthora and Pythium root rots. They may
also display some curative activity. In general,
applications every 14 days seem to be effective in
grapes, but follow label directions. These fungicides
are sold as solutions of potassium and/or sodium
salts of phosphorous acid. To compare them, one
should look at the phosphorous acid equivalent,
which should be listed on the label.
Fungicide precautions. Phosphorous acid
fungicide prices range from about $25 to $35 per
gallon, and the application rate ranges from 2 to 5 pt/
acre ($6.25 to $22 per acre, depending on the
product and rate). Under high disease pressure,
higher rates may need to be used and spray intervals
tightened. These fungicides are formulated in salt
form, so care must be taken not to exceed a certain
concentration, as crop injury may result. In addition,
if the concentration is too high, the pH may become
so low that in tank mixes with copper products
(particularly copper hydroxide such as Kocide), too
much copper will become available and result in crop
injury.
Pawpaw Tasting Highlights
Kentucky State/Pawpaw Foundation
Workshop
by Kirk W. Pomper, K.S.U., USDA Pawpaw
Germplasm Repository, Frankfort, KY
The Kentucky

And here is an article on Bicarbonates.

An article in the February, 1996 issue of GrowerTalks magazine follows up on the continuing research at Cornell. Testing with a variety of bicarbonates revealed that selecting the correct bicarbonate for a particular disease is important. Dr. Horst's research team found that ammonium bicarbonate had the strongest effect on some diseases, while potassium and sodium bicarbonates worked best against others. Potassium bicarbonate provided the best control of PM. "Sodium bicarbonate is okay, but it's not as good," Horst is quoted as saying. "And ammonium bicarbonate doesn't do the job on powdery mildew." He points out that while conventional chemical controls for PM are preventatives only, bicarbonates can eliminate the disease after it has already appeared on certain crops—he mentions roses and an unspecified ornamental—provided the infection is not severe. The only plant damage associated with bicarbonates applied in the trials was foliar burning when application rates exceeded recommended concentrations. Testing established that sodium bicarbonate does not increase the levels of sodium in plant tissues, soil, or runoff water. While their precise mode of action against fungi is not understood, Horst states that bicarbonates seem to damage the cell wall membrane in PM spores. He also believes pH to be a factor in bicarbonate effectiveness. In any case, bicarbonates are contact fungicides, and kill PM within minutes.(7)