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flyingbrass · March 2, 2011

I'm new to growing anything more than a handful of determinates each year. This is my first time starting from seed and trying some indeterminates.

The little dinky tomato cages sold in box stores won't work for this. I've searched, read, and pulled some hair out trying to decide what to do. I have a newly expanded garden area that includes about 30 feet against an east-facing block fence.

For a free-standing, meaning accessible from both sides, row, I'd consider trying a Florida Weave. Still, seems like a lot of hassle (coming from my background), and likely a lot more so when you can't reach both sides of the weave easily, as I'll be dealing with against this block fence.

One idea similar to FW that could work in my situation was posted by dcarch here. I really like his concept. If I knew exactly where I would be growing my tomatoes, I'd try it. BTW, look up "superstrut" at Lowe's or HD to find the posts he used. However, I'm dealing with a new garden area that I haven't yet figured out how I want to set up. I wouldn't want to put in guy wire anchors right now. And, they are key to the whole thing. I may try his scheme next year, using cages in a different area.

Concrete reinforcing wire, either used to make cages or sheets suspended between posts, is an oft-used support method. Today, here in Arizona, CRW costs $58 for a 50' roll or $98 for a 150' roll at both Lowe's and Home Depot. Plus tax, which is now close to 10% here. CRW is 10 gauge uncoated welded wire with a 6" mesh spacing, and it rusts before you even get it out of the store.

A 23"ish diameter cage requires about 6 feet of CRW. Add in some loss when figuring how many cages if you leave ends to bend over.

I've read many accounts of the older CRW lasting many years despite the rust. It used to be a good way to go. I've found newer reports of the stuff being sold now -- Chinese garbage -- breaking when bending the ends and rusting through in only a few years. I know that steel in general is not now of the quality it was years ago.

I looked at the $98 rolls of CRW at my local Home Depot. They all had broken welds in a few places and hadn't even been unrolled.

Somewhere during my research, I found a thread, perhaps at Gardenweb, where someone with steel working experience suggested buying CRW from a local rebar outfit. Well, I called one. They want $120 for a 150' roll, but the guy didn't know if it was American made. So, I'm thinking it may be the exact same stuff at Home Depot or Lowe's with a higher markup.

Some have used 4"x2" galvanized fencing, either leaving an end open in a "C" configuration or strategically cutting out some pieces to reach the tomatoes. I considered this. Such fencing at Home Depot and Lowe's is 14 gauge wire, very thin. And, it's relatively expensive. I don't remember the exact price, but I'm thinking $100ish for 100 feet. Pro: galvanized. Con: weak and thin. Probably also poor galvanizing.

I called a local fence dealer that has been in business for 50+ years. I explained what I was wanting. He said the closest product he has is 4" x 4" mesh sheep/goat fence. It's only 48" tall, though is galvanized. 12.5 gauge. It was $117ish, IIRC, for a 100' roll.

What I really want is a roll of decent quality, properly galvanized concrete reinforcing wire. Apparently, it's not available, at least not here.

What about making my own cages? I have a welder and am generally of the DIY mindset. Unfortunately, I don't have a supply of free or extremely low cost stock to use. Rebar, if free, would work. I'd make square cages that could be disassembled and stacked for storage. Two triangles for each cage.

I looked around for suitable, relatively cheap materials. Found out about "pencil rod," which is apparently the stuff used to hold concrete wall forms together. It comes in 1/4" (actually .225") and a size bigger. I called a rebar supplier and found out 20' rods sell for $7.50 each ($6.50 each if purchased in packs of 100). I had read that 600' rolls are also made.

If I were to make 24" square solid cages using that material consisting of 4 6' uprights with 7 horizontal levels, that would be 80 feet for each cage. 4 sticks of pencil rod at $7.50 each = $30 plus sales tax. Add in my costs for cutting disks and welding supplies, not to mention the labor. And the cages still wouldn't have any kind of protective coating. Forget that.

Texas Tomato cages, as pricey as they seem, eventually struck me as more and more appealing, assuming they are actually of the quality advertised. I suspect they are made from pencil rod purchased at wholesale prices. Maybe someone with a metal fabrication and plating shop cranks them out on the side. I don't know.

I put in an order for 6 20 inchers (20" is their new "medium" diameter). This season I'll use them to cage every other plant along my 30ish foot run and use twine/rope between them to support the uncaged plants. Might add in a few extra support stakes.

I'll continue keeping an eye out for cheap, maybe even old and used, remnants of CRW, but I couldn't bring myself to spend over $100 for a roll of questionable quality new stuff. If I don't like the Texas cages or stop growing tomatoes for whatever reason, I can probably sell my used Texas cages locally for a fair percentage of the cost.

There isn't any one-size-fits all way to support tomatoes. Someone dealing with many tens, hundreds, or perhaps thousands of plants is in a completely different situation from one who grows a dozen. And beyond that, at the small home gardener level, conditions and opportunities vary. If I had a stack of free rebar, I'd have rebar cages. If I had some old cattle panels sitting around, or could get some for a song, I'd figure out how to use them.

Just wanted to pass along some of my thought process as a newbie considering options on a limited budget though planning to continue gardening for life.

dice · March 2, 2011

A-frames like the one in the picture below are mobile. I can
put one at the ends of rows (maybe one in the middle, too,
for a longish row), set conduit or whatever on top, and tie
a trellis to it. If I decide that I want the row elsewhere
the next season, I can move the A-frames.

I have both hand-tied trellises like the single-plant ones
beside the A-frame in the photo and pre-fabricated trellis
netting attached with zip ties to a top rail on longer rows.
(One could suspend cattle panels from a top bar, too, for
a really heavy duty trellis that is still mobile.)

Easy to build, easy to move around, and cheap. They are
perhaps a little more work than cages during the season,
because one needs to tuck the stems into the trellis as they
grow. (The holes in the picture are a little too big, too. When
I get around to retieing the ends on that 3-plant support,
I will take it down from 12-inch diagonal to 8-inch diagonal
mesh.)

One can get cheap pre-tied trellis material like this in a lot
of places:
http://www.gardenharvestsupply.com/P...etting-c36.htm

Here is a link from Google Images to that kind of trellis
attached to conduit:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mabf67/2468908557/

A smaller one, same idea (second photo down on blog page):
http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/tomato-trellis.html

Cattle panel trellises in action:
http://www.backyardfreshfoods.com/20...d-staking.html

Someone making cages out of cut up canel panels:
http://halfachestnut.blogspot.com/20...in-barrel.html

(That was a Spudakee inside the A-frame, with a Cherokee
Chocolate on one side and a Cherokee Purple on the
other.)

March 2, 2011	#1
flyingbrass Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Glendale, AZ 9b Posts: 90	Support Options I'm new to growing anything more than a handful of determinates each year. This is my first time starting from seed and trying some indeterminates. The little dinky tomato cages sold in box stores won't work for this. I've searched, read, and pulled some hair out trying to decide what to do. I have a newly expanded garden area that includes about 30 feet against an east-facing block fence. For a free-standing, meaning accessible from both sides, row, I'd consider trying a Florida Weave. Still, seems like a lot of hassle (coming from my background), and likely a lot more so when you can't reach both sides of the weave easily, as I'll be dealing with against this block fence. One idea similar to FW that could work in my situation was posted by dcarch here. I really like his concept. If I knew exactly where I would be growing my tomatoes, I'd try it. BTW, look up "superstrut" at Lowe's or HD to find the posts he used. However, I'm dealing with a new garden area that I haven't yet figured out how I want to set up. I wouldn't want to put in guy wire anchors right now. And, they are key to the whole thing. I may try his scheme next year, using cages in a different area. Concrete reinforcing wire, either used to make cages or sheets suspended between posts, is an oft-used support method. Today, here in Arizona, CRW costs $58 for a 50' roll or $98 for a 150' roll at both Lowe's and Home Depot. Plus tax, which is now close to 10% here. CRW is 10 gauge uncoated welded wire with a 6" mesh spacing, and it rusts before you even get it out of the store. A 23"ish diameter cage requires about 6 feet of CRW. Add in some loss when figuring how many cages if you leave ends to bend over. I've read many accounts of the older CRW lasting many years despite the rust. It used to be a good way to go. I've found newer reports of the stuff being sold now -- Chinese garbage -- breaking when bending the ends and rusting through in only a few years. I know that steel in general is not now of the quality it was years ago. I looked at the $98 rolls of CRW at my local Home Depot. They all had broken welds in a few places and hadn't even been unrolled. Somewhere during my research, I found a thread, perhaps at Gardenweb, where someone with steel working experience suggested buying CRW from a local rebar outfit. Well, I called one. They want $120 for a 150' roll, but the guy didn't know if it was American made. So, I'm thinking it may be the exact same stuff at Home Depot or Lowe's with a higher markup. Some have used 4"x2" galvanized fencing, either leaving an end open in a "C" configuration or strategically cutting out some pieces to reach the tomatoes. I considered this. Such fencing at Home Depot and Lowe's is 14 gauge wire, very thin. And, it's relatively expensive. I don't remember the exact price, but I'm thinking $100ish for 100 feet. Pro: galvanized. Con: weak and thin. Probably also poor galvanizing. I called a local fence dealer that has been in business for 50+ years. I explained what I was wanting. He said the closest product he has is 4" x 4" mesh sheep/goat fence. It's only 48" tall, though is galvanized. 12.5 gauge. It was $117ish, IIRC, for a 100' roll. What I really want is a roll of decent quality, properly galvanized concrete reinforcing wire. Apparently, it's not available, at least not here. What about making my own cages? I have a welder and am generally of the DIY mindset. Unfortunately, I don't have a supply of free or extremely low cost stock to use. Rebar, if free, would work. I'd make square cages that could be disassembled and stacked for storage. Two triangles for each cage. I looked around for suitable, relatively cheap materials. Found out about "pencil rod," which is apparently the stuff used to hold concrete wall forms together. It comes in 1/4" (actually .225") and a size bigger. I called a rebar supplier and found out 20' rods sell for $7.50 each ($6.50 each if purchased in packs of 100). I had read that 600' rolls are also made. If I were to make 24" square solid cages using that material consisting of 4 6' uprights with 7 horizontal levels, that would be 80 feet for each cage. 4 sticks of pencil rod at $7.50 each = $30 plus sales tax. Add in my costs for cutting disks and welding supplies, not to mention the labor. And the cages still wouldn't have any kind of protective coating. Forget that. Texas Tomato cages, as pricey as they seem, eventually struck me as more and more appealing, assuming they are actually of the quality advertised. I suspect they are made from pencil rod purchased at wholesale prices. Maybe someone with a metal fabrication and plating shop cranks them out on the side. I don't know. I put in an order for 6 20 inchers (20" is their new "medium" diameter). This season I'll use them to cage every other plant along my 30ish foot run and use twine/rope between them to support the uncaged plants. Might add in a few extra support stakes. I'll continue keeping an eye out for cheap, maybe even old and used, remnants of CRW, but I couldn't bring myself to spend over $100 for a roll of questionable quality new stuff. If I don't like the Texas cages or stop growing tomatoes for whatever reason, I can probably sell my used Texas cages locally for a fair percentage of the cost. There isn't any one-size-fits all way to support tomatoes. Someone dealing with many tens, hundreds, or perhaps thousands of plants is in a completely different situation from one who grows a dozen. And beyond that, at the small home gardener level, conditions and opportunities vary. If I had a stack of free rebar, I'd have rebar cages. If I had some old cattle panels sitting around, or could get some for a song, I'd figure out how to use them. Just wanted to pass along some of my thought process as a newbie considering options on a limited budget though planning to continue gardening for life. Last edited by flyingbrass; March 2, 2011 at 03:30 AM.