german johnson

[tyrupp]

I have four german johnson plants, three are potato leaf and the other is regular, which is the real thing according to leaf pattern

[shlacm]

My understanding is that there are BOTH German Johnson (which are regular leaf) and German Johnson PL. Now as to why there would be a MIX of leaf type in a batch of seeds.... I imagine there are lots of people who will have something useful to say about that!

[tyrupp]

I ordered the seeds from one of the member seed sites, should I tell them about it ?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tyrupp

I ordered the seeds from one of the member seed sites, should I tell them about it ?

There are two leaf forms of German Johnson and I once knew why, other than remembering that it had something to do with the specific area where each were grown.

Tyrupp, what was the leaf form specified for what you bought wherever you bought it?

I was just looking at the TGS catalog where both are listed. No area specified for the PL one, but for the RL one it says an old time favorite from North Carolina and Virginia.

REgardless of the fact that there are two leaf forms, if the one you ordered specified PL then all should be PL, and if they specified RL then all seeds should give RL.

If a mix, and one seed giving Rl and the other seeds giving PL, since only one PL I'm hesitant to call it cross pollination. It could be a stray seed, it could be just ONE X pollinated seed, but what is the leaf from given for what you're now growing?

[travis]

Originally Posted by tyrupp

I ordered the seeds from one of the member seed sites, should I tell them about it ?

Yes. I'd phrase the telling as an asking first, though. For example, "What is the correct leaf form for the German Johnson that I obtained from you?" might work real good.

[camochef]

German Johnson is available in both R.L. and P.L. The R.L. is more common, but the confusion doesn't end there. For a period in our past it seems that many slicers grown in the N.C.-Va. area were called German Johnsons. Irregaurdless of what they really were.
I grow one on and off that beats the other known "German Johnson's" hands down. I call it Dana's German Johnson as it's a much better tomato than the other German Johnson's that I've grown in the past. I received seed for it from Dana of Dana's Dusky Rose fame. It was a family heirloom presented to her father years ago by a gentleman that I can't recall the name of. Dana's grown it for years. It's always R.L. , a good sized pink, with great taste and very good production. I know I have notes somewhere on it's history, but not sure where at this moment.
Camo

[travis]

Originally Posted by camochef

I grow one on and off that beats the other known "German Johnson's" hands down. I call it Dana's German Johnson as it's a much better tomato than the other German Johnson's that I've grown in the past.

Oh boy! Another "new" tomato from Pennsylvania

[camochef]

Originally Posted by travis

Oh boy! Another "new" tomato from Pennsylvania

Dana's "German Johnson" is not new and it wasn't from Pennsylvania, originally. Dana's Parents grew it for years and she has been growing it ever since I knew her.
I find your taking a partial quote and way of commenting both rude and offensive.
Camo

[tyrupp]

Originally Posted by travis

Yes. I'd phrase the telling as an asking first, though. For example, "What is the correct leaf form for the German Johnson that I obtained from you?" might work real good.

The seed only cost 2 bucks and I don't want to offend a company that has very good service and prices. I save it for companies like Gurney's and alot of others from randolf ,wi

[tyrupp]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

There are two leaf forms of German Johnson and I once knew why, other than remembering that it had something to do with the specific area where each were grown.

Tyrupp, what was the leaf form specified for what you bought wherever you bought it?

I was just looking at the TGS catalog where both are listed. No area specified for the PL one, but for the RL one it says an old time favorite from North Carolina and Virginia.

REgardless of the fact that there are two leaf forms, if the one you ordered specified PL then all should be PL, and if they specified RL then all seeds should give RL.

If a mix, and one seed giving Rl and the other seeds giving PL, since only one PL I'm hesitant to call it cross pollination. It could be a stray seed, it could be just ONE X pollinated seed, but what is the leaf from given for what you're now growing?

They didn't say

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by camochef

Dana's "German Johnson" is not new and it wasn't from Pennsylvania, originally. Dana's Parents grew it for years and she has been growing it ever since I knew her.
I find your taking a partial quote and way of commenting both rude and offensive.
Camo

Camo, I think what Travis was saying is that by renaming a variety you've created a new variety, and he isn't saying it's from PA, he's saying that you are.

We've got how many Mortgage Lifters with different names attached and they're all about the same when trialed in the same season, except for the pale Leaf Mullen's one.

Camo, I went back and read what you posted about what you call Dana's German Johnson, but no where in what you write do you say that it was German Johnson in the first place.

So me be confused.

(I call it Dana's German Johnson as it's a much better tomato than the other German Johnson's that I've grown in the past. I received seed for it from Dana of Dana's Dusky Rose fame. It was a family heirloom presented to her father years ago by a gentleman that I can't recall the name of. Dana's grown it for years. It's always R.L. , a good sized pink, with great taste and very good production. I know I have notes somewhere on it's history, but not sure where at this moment.)

So how is it known that it was German Johnson if it was a family heirloom given to Dana's father by someone and the name of that family heirloom isn't known? That's what confuses me. Also when you speak of other German Johnsons, plural, I'm not sure what you're referring to since I think only an RL and a PL are known, as mentioned above, and neither one has a name attached to it.

[camochef]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Camo, I think what Travis was saying is that by renaming a variety you've created a new variety, and he isn't saying it's from PA, he's saying that you are.

We've got how many Mortgage Lifters with different names attached and they're all about the same when trialed in the same season, except for the pale Leaf Mullen's one.

Camo, I went back and read what you posted about what you call Dana's German Johnson, but no where in what you write do you say that it was German Johnson in the first place.

So me be confused.

(I call it Dana's German Johnson as it's a much better tomato than the other German Johnson's that I've grown in the past. I received seed for it from Dana of Dana's Dusky Rose fame. It was a family heirloom presented to her father years ago by a gentleman that I can't recall the name of. Dana's grown it for years. It's always R.L. , a good sized pink, with great taste and very good production. I know I have notes somewhere on it's history, but not sure where at this moment.)

So how is it known that it was German Johnson if it was a family heirloom given to Dana's father by someone and the name of that family heirloom isn't known? That's what confuses me. Also when you speak of other German Johnsons, plural, I'm not sure what you're referring to since I think only an RL and a PL are known, as mentioned above, and neither one has a name attached to it.

Carolyn,
I went to that other forum and looked up my 2009 year in review and copied the German Johnson entry.

41. German Johnson-Dana’s
13 3/8 oz or 378 grams
A fine red skinned tomato, average skin thickness, little core, less than average seeds yet lots of gel. Above average taste, better with salt, much better with Zatarain’s A great slicer for a mater sandwich or BLT! This is a regular-leafed German Johnson, yet not the same German Johnson available from many distributors, but a family heirloom from Jim Benton who gave it to Dana’s mom and dad about thirty years ago. Mr Benton passed away last year but his wonderful tomato lives on.

Dana and her dad before her sells it simply as German Johnson, I added the "-Dana's" just to distinguish it from the other German Johnsons that I've grown over the years, both R.L. and P.L.
So it's been around and being sold for at least the last 32 years now. Now if I could just remember where I read about many different tomatoes from N.C. - Va. area being called German Johnson's. I hope it wasn't in your book.

The information about the Benton family's heirloom was told to me by Dana, (Dana's flower and Garden Place), herself a few years ago. I just couldn't recall the name offhand and didn't feel like searching through my garden journals.
I've started growing it in 2005/2006. It's a fine tomato, but not one that makes it into my gardens every year. Seems when I was starting 800 or so tomatoes and planting out 350 or more I didn't always have room for all the ones I liked. So they got left out for a year or two sometimes. I just checked the list for those I started this year and they are included once again.
Sorry if I caused you any confusion, I never was a great student in English, but I've always been pretty good at growng things and grafting and budding and even cross-pollinating. But to keep confusion down in the future, I won't mention any of my more successful ventures in those fields as I don't want to be introducing any new varieties from Pennsylvania.
I already regret spreading Cowlick's and Dana's Dusty Rose and a few others around the world. I guess I'm just getting to old.
Camo

[travis]

Originally Posted by camochef

Carolyn, I went to that other forum and looked up my 2009 year in review and copied the German Johnson entry. 41. German Johnson-Dana’s 13 3/8 oz or 378 grams. A fine red skinned tomato, average skin thickness, little core, less than average seeds yet lots of gel.

Isn't German Johnson supposed to be a clear skin, pink tomato?

[Suze]

Camo, rest assured that you are always welcome at Tomatoville and you are also free to speak your mind and share your experiences here.

Personally, I really appreciate how friendly and generous you've been with me in the past. Thank you. I'm sure many others reading this feel the same way.

Please don't let a few direct questions or comments ruffle your feathers. Easy to say, hard to do sometimes - believe me, I know!

[carolyn137]

Now if I could just remember where I read about many different tomatoes from N.C. - Va. area being called German Johnson's. I hope it wasn't in your book.

*****

In a post I did above in this thread I had said that somewhere in the back of my brain I had read that the RL one was grow primarily in one area in the south and the PL one primarily in a different area.

And then I looked in the TGS catalog and there was a reference to the one in NC and VA being the RL one so I posted that info in the same post above.

Nope, not from my book and I bet that you read about the NC/VA one in the TGS catalog as well.

Thanks for the additional information you gave.

I guess what I'm trying to say but perhaps not doing a very good job of it is that to attach a personal name to a well known heirloom is not always that helpful.

For instance, you and I can grow the same variety in the same year seeds from you to me, let's call it variety X.

Now I happen to already have grown variety X so I put out my variety X and the variety X from seeds you sent me.

And I find that in that season that your variety X did better than mine. So do I then call it Camo's variety X and distribute seeds that way, or just note in my notebook that seeds for that one came from you?

I would do the latter and not name it Camo's_____________, which to some indicates a possible new variety or strain, which it isn't.

Or take another example. At one time, and this is true, I wanted to compare the Red Brandywine that Tom Hauch, owner of Heirloom Seeds in PA, got out of the SSE YEarbook and was the first to offer it commercially, with the Red Brandywine that I already had from another SSE member from back in the early 90's.

I grow both RB's in the same season and find that Tom's was a better plant with greater productivity.

Do I then call that one Tom's Red Brandywine? No, I don't, it's just that Tom was the source of my seeds and any variety grown by any two folks can differ sometimes in the same season based on lots of variables.

As it turned out in this case his RB and my RB were identical.

Did I do a better job of trying to explain what I'm trying to say? I hope so.