Cherokee Purple & Black Krim!

I have been intrigued and excited about the possibility of eating a tomato with the reputation of the subject tomatoes. The supposed "smokey" flavors had my taste buds doing a dance in anticipation. I ate my first Black Krim over the weekend and my first Cherokee purple today. The taste of both was good but I was mostly disappointed with the taste of each. I was under whelmed with the mealy texture of both. It may be my fault for having high expectations and possibly for letting them become over ripe on the vine. I'm just not accustomed to eating tomatoes with pronounced green shoulders. I have a lot more Black Krim ( a generous producer) to sample through the summer and a few Cherokee Purple (a stingy producer) to do the same. Maybe some hot, dry; weather will improve both the flavor and the texture. My problem may also be the fact that my taste buds are more tuned into the bright, acidic flavors of really good red tomatoes. Maybe I can't detect or appreciate subtle flavors.

Ted

[attml]

Ted,

I am growing both this summer for the first time and have high expectations as well. Still have a ways to go here in the mid - atlantic. Still no fruit on the Cherokee Purple but my Black Krim has one tomato on it! Hopefully they live up to their reputation as summer goes on!

Mark

[RayR]

The Black Krim's and the Cherokee Purple I grew last year didn't have a mealy texture, actually quite juicy.
Ditto on the stingy CP, Black Krim is a much bigger producer and much earlier.

[travis]

Sometimes the first few tomatoes you get off any variety can be mealy or low on flavor. Wait until the middle of the vine is producing to judge long season indeterminates like Cherokee Purple. I never thought Black Krim measured up to Cherokee Purple, and never was overwhelmed by Black Krim flavor anyway.

Originally Posted by RayR

The Black Krim's and the Cherokee Purple I grew last year didn't have a mealy texture, actually quite juicy.
Ditto on the stingy CP, Black Krim is a much bigger producer and much earlier.

Yes, so far the Black Krim is both the largest plant (with the exception of Pineapple) and the heaviest producer in my garden. The fruits are not the largest in size, but very acceptable. I will grow it again simply for the volume of tomatoes it produces and we are still only in May. I understand it continues to do well through the heat of summer. If our rainy season is over, I expect the mealy texture to disappear and the summer heat may improve the flavor. I plan on planting some mid summer Black Krims and see how they perform as fall tomatoes. They should ripen well in the cooler weather of fall since they produced and ripened in the cooler weather of spring. Cherokee Purple won't be worth my time and effort to grow again if the flavor and texture don't improve. I probably will get only six tomatoes off of two plants and they are planted right beside the Black Krims so the conditions are the same for both. I do have some Indian Stripe and Spudakee planted, but they were planted later. I hope they produce well and give me the taste, texture, and production I am looking for in the Cherokee Purple.

Ted

[frogwash]

Last year was my first with Black Krim. All my earlier ones were excellent. When I started having too many too eat immediately is when they got mealy, a/k/a over-ripe. Try not waiting so long and go by how it feels rather than how it looks and you should be much happier!

[nctomatoman]

What was your source for Cherokee Purple? I've never known it to be either mealy or stingy! It is often the most productive large tomato in my garden....

[barkeater]

Most overripe tomatoes will be mealy and the flavor will be in decline as the sugars turn to starches. Black tomatoes (and green when ripes!) can be difficult to tell when they are ripe and it is easy to wait too long. Don't go by looks, give them the squeeze test. With your thumb on the top lightly press the bottom of the tomato with your index finger. If there is any give at all, the tomato is ready. A lot of give means you've waited too long.

[WVTomatoMan]

I always find it fascinating when people have different results than I do. I try to imagine what environmental factors are the causes. I've never had a mealy Cherokee Purple. I've grown it every year since at least 2005 (the oldest records I have here at work are from 2005). I've only experienced the smoky flavor a couple of times. In both cases the tomatoes were off the first cluster and were slightly underripe. As far as I recall I have never experienced a smoky taste with Black Krim

In my garden at least 95%+ per cent of the time the first tomatoes off the plant are the least flavorful.

For me Cherokee Purple is a sweet tomato and is a favorite among several of the tomato tasters at work. It usually, but not always, finishes in the top 5. Black Krim finished 5th in 2006. I only grew it in 2006 and 2009.

Good luck, I hope things improve for you.

Randy

[camochef]

Going back a few years, I used to grow both Black Krim and Cherokee Purple. I never recall them being mealy. Taste was pretty good on the Black Krim although I never tasted that smokey flavor some talk about. Their production was also very good. My problem with them was the constant cracking. Eight out of ten years, they would have significant cracking around the stem end.

Cherokee Purple seemed to be inconsistant in taste. Some tasted great! others, grown right along-side of them...not so much. Also their production was never impressive here.

Over the years, both have been eliminated from my gardens for better varieties. I favor the Brandywine/Cherokee Purple crosses like Bear Creek, Liz Birt, Dora and Gary O'Sena, as well as other blacks that perform better in my gardens, such as Dana's Dusky Rose, Indian Stripe, Amazon Chocolate, JD'S Special C-Tex, Blackmaster, Swisher Sweet and Shannon's South African Mystery Black.

These could be locale issues as our climates are as different as night and day. Brandywines and BW crosses have always done very well for me here, but seem to have more difficulty producing down in your neck of the woods. I wish you much luck with yours and hopefully you'll see much improvement as the season progresses.
Enjoy!
Camo

Thanks Camo!

I only post my impressions of varieties because it is surprising to me to find such a huge difference between tomatoes grown in my climate and tomatoes grown by folks in other climates. My general belief is while tomatoes do require some moderately cool air to bloom and pollinate successfully, they mature and develop the most complex tastes in hot and dry air.

I have seed for most of the varieties you mentioned as Brandywine crosses and most of the blacks you mentioned. My intention is to grow most of them next year. I am constantly surprised by the variations between my garden and the reports from others. I had thought about growing Mortgage Lifter this year and last year. I didn't plant seed for it because the reports from others led me to believe it is a rather boring old variety. When I lost my seedlings in a frost, I purchased available seedlings from local nurseries. I planted two Mortgage lifter plants. So far, I have eaten one Mortgage Lifter tomato and it was great with a great texture. I counted the fruit on one plant this morning and it had thirty in various stages of size and ripeness.

I think it is inaccurate to believe the results from one persons garden will be the same in your garden.

Ted

[carolyn137]

Craig sent me Cherokee Purple shortly after he got it from John Green and grew it out and it's never been anything but a lovely tasting variety for me where I grow my tomatoes and how I grow them.

And never but never have I ever tasted a smokey flavor OR a salty flavor from any so called dark colored variety and that includes Black Krim and its namesake Noire de Crimme, which I do like even better than Black Krim, even though Noire is Black Krim in French language.

Back to the old adage that taste is both personal and perceptual and that the same variety grown in different geographic places can differ and the same variety grown in the same garden can differ from year to year.

[organichris]

Originally Posted by travis

... I never thought Black Krim measured up to Cherokee Purple, and never was overwhelmed by Black Krim flavor anyway.

Yeah, can't hold a candle to it.

[Dewayne mater]

Ted - as for texture, I think that is probably due to it still being early in the season. While the 1/2 dozen or so beef steak tomatoes I have had so far this year were not exactly mealy, they were also not up to the texture they get once the weather is hotter. Of course, that is a double edged sword because the heat that give them excellent texture and very intense flavors (more so than the same varieties get in more temperate climates in my opinion) also spells the end of production. So, shake em while you got em and get those tomatoes set now because in a couple of weeks, it is likely to get too hot for much more new fruit set until fall.

By the way, I moved away from Krim and CP for Indian Stripe which has very similar flavors to me, but which for me produced more fruit and produced longer in the heat and is a little less susceptible to disease. If you haven't tried it, you should. Happy gardening.

Thanks Dewayne,

I had Indian Stripe and Spudakee seedlings growing but lost them to a frost. None of the nurseries had them so I replanted seed. They are growing fine in the garden, but still small. I will get a chance to see how both do in the summer heat and hopefully the fall garden. I also had Black From Tula and JD's Special C Tex growing as seedlings but they were lost as well. I decided to not grow the BFT because of mealy comments I have read and just didn't get around to regrowing JD's. Maybe next year.

I know flavors and textures can change with the climate. I planted a hybrid named "Fourth Of July" on March 7 for an early variety. The first ripe fruits were eaten in the first week of May. They were bland in taste. Now in the last week of May, they are outstanding with a rich, acidic flavor. Because they are only golf ball size, I slice them in half and eat five or six of them each day. It's the taste I've waited all winter for.

Ted