Would bark fines improve raised bed?

barryla61 · July 31, 2011

If pine bark fines are so important to containers would they not improve the quality of soil in a raised bed?
My bed now consists of topsoil, compost and manure.
Would tilling some pine bark fines into the current bed soil help with aeration thus improving root growth?

fortyonenorth · July 31, 2011

PBF are an excellent amendment for raised beds. Just make sure you get the real deal: pink or fir BARK - not any type of hardwood or hardwood bark.

dice · August 3, 2011

Whether this is a good idea or not, and depending on what kind of soil
one has (how much clay and what is mixed into it naturally), gardens
in raised beds or in the ground typically do not have as much of an issue
with aeration as containers because of "soil aggregation" that
does not happen in containers. Soil aggregation is the binding
of smaller particles into larger ones by fungi, creating more large-pore
air space in the process.

For an example of what soil aggregation can do for a soil in the ground,
see the "Soil Structure" section in the short document at the URL below:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%2...dments%202.pdf

sprtsguy76 · August 3, 2011

I agree Pine or Fir bark fines are a great addition to garden beds. Every year I empty my containers and throw some of the used mix into my beds.

Damon

Keiththibodeaux · August 3, 2011

Garden beds and containers are too very different environments, microbially speaking, that is. In a raised bed you definitely can have too much organic matter, or at least too much in active decomposition. There are lots of factors, including climate, but if you have good drainage and a decent amount of organic materials adding more will not help, and may indeed hurt.

Gardenkeep · August 3, 2011

An old English gardener taught me long ago, "whatever is wrong add organic material". The garden is a bank it requires frequent deposits in order to grow. Things are not static in nature, by making a mistake of "adding too much of...."(I never could figure out what that means) a ton of compost will barely effect the same clay based volume. Nature will correct your over enthusiasm one way or another. The trick is to get the ball rolling. You need 4 things for an active garden. Earth, wind, fire and rain. You would think it's sounds too good to be true. Time is actually your best friend in this world you created.
Beware of the trap in thinking it's you, you, you. When in all regards your hand will have very little to do with the rewards of your labor.

Keiththibodeaux · August 3, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardenkeep

An old English gardener taught me long ago, "whatever is wrong add organic material". The garden is a bank it requires frequent deposits in order to grow. Things are not static in nature, by making a mistake of "adding too much of...."(I never could figure out what that means) a ton of compost will barely effect the same clay based volume. Nature will correct your over enthusiasm one way or another. The trick is to get the ball rolling. You need 4 things for an active garden. Earth, wind, fire and rain. You would think it's sounds too good to be true. Time is actually your best friend in this world you created.
Beware of the trap in thinking it's you, you, you. When in all regards your hand will have very little to do with the rewards of your labor.

I absolutely agree that nature will correct, especially when it comes to compost, but it may do so at the expense of your currents seasons's tomato crop.

Gardenkeep · August 3, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keiththibodeaux

I absolutely agree that nature will correct, especially when it comes to compost, but it may do so at the expense of your currents seasons's tomato crop.

Maybe............, there are no absolutes in nature. Thank you for your support

dice · August 3, 2011

A soil test for nutrients and percent organic matter is generally
recommended when considering adding compost or other organic
matter to soils:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...20overdose.pdf

edit:
That said, tomatoes in particular like beds that have lots
of organic matter, at least on top:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/p...er_tomato.html

Gardenkeep · August 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

A soil test for nutrients and percent organic matter is generally
recommended when considering adding compost or other organic
matter to soils:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Compost%20overdose.pdf

edit:
That said, tomatoes in particular like beds that have lots

of organic matter, at least on top:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/p...er_tomato.html

I won't be seeking advice from Linda, Ya might want to research Ruth Stout, Rodale (the old stuff) a nice little tome called five acres and independence. The last time i looked photosynthesis hasn't changed much acording to the plant that is

Gardenkeep · August 4, 2011

on a side note a tomato is just a weed

Keiththibodeaux · August 4, 2011

Organic matter on top of the soil, aka mulch, is an entirely different matter than organic matter incoporated into the soil.

Gardenkeep · August 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keiththibodeaux

Organic matter on top of the soil, aka mulch, is an entirely different matter than organic matter incoporated into the soil.

not for long...........d'ja ever hear of worms????

Keiththibodeaux · August 4, 2011

Worms are but a small part of the symphony of the soil. The microbes do most of the playing, but their symphony requires nitrogen, and if they play to loudly the short term sufferers are the plants. Yes, the nitrogen will be returned to the plants eventually, which is why I work in my organic matter a few months ahead of planting. I want that symphony down to a low hum, so my tomatoes can do the playing.

RayR · August 4, 2011

Agreed Dice, organic matter is best placed on top of the soil. That's how nature over time creates rich soils below.
Compost mulches or even partially composted mulches are probably the quickest way to achieve long lasting results for gardeners who plant in soil because they are already rich in microbial life that is releasing nutrients and compounds like humic acids whose benefits reach deep into the soil. You mentioned "soil aggregation" earlier, which I think is very important point because many people I know who garden don't grasp how important it is to create an environment for soil microbes to flourish at the surface of the soil.
I've noticed myself that in my beds that have had organic matter simply tilled into my heavy clay soil to fluff it up, if there were benefits for that season, those benefits didn't last long. But those beds that were mulched with organic matter had soil structure that was improved even the next season.

July 31, 2011	#1
barryla61 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Bedford, VA Posts: 257	Would bark fines improve raised bed? If pine bark fines are so important to containers would they not improve the quality of soil in a raised bed? My bed now consists of topsoil, compost and manure. Would tilling some pine bark fines into the current bed soil help with aeration thus improving root growth?

August 3, 2011	#3
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Whether this is a good idea or not, and depending on what kind of soil one has (how much clay and what is mixed into it naturally), gardens in raised beds or in the ground typically do not have as much of an issue with aeration as containers because of "soil aggregation" that does not happen in containers. Soil aggregation is the binding of smaller particles into larger ones by fungi, creating more large-pore air space in the process. For an example of what soil aggregation can do for a soil in the ground, see the "Soil Structure" section in the short document at the URL below: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%2...dments%202.pdf __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; August 3, 2011 at 04:47 AM. Reason: clarity

August 3, 2011	#9
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	A soil test for nutrients and percent organic matter is generally recommended when considering adding compost or other organic matter to soils: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...20overdose.pdf edit: That said, tomatoes in particular like beds that have lots of organic matter, at least on top: http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/p...er_tomato.html __________________ -- alias

July 31, 2011	#2
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	PBF are an excellent amendment for raised beds. Just make sure you get the real deal: pink or fir BARK - not any type of hardwood or hardwood bark.

August 3, 2011	#4
sprtsguy76 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Santa Clara CA Posts: 1,125	I agree Pine or Fir bark fines are a great addition to garden beds. Every year I empty my containers and throw some of the used mix into my beds. Damon

August 3, 2011	#5
Keiththibodeaux Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 587	Garden beds and containers are too very different environments, microbially speaking, that is. In a raised bed you definitely can have too much organic matter, or at least too much in active decomposition. There are lots of factors, including climate, but if you have good drainage and a decent amount of organic materials adding more will not help, and may indeed hurt.

August 3, 2011	#6
Gardenkeep Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SWMO Posts: 20	An old English gardener taught me long ago, "whatever is wrong add organic material". The garden is a bank it requires frequent deposits in order to grow. Things are not static in nature, by making a mistake of "adding too much of...."(I never could figure out what that means) a ton of compost will barely effect the same clay based volume. Nature will correct your over enthusiasm one way or another. The trick is to get the ball rolling. You need 4 things for an active garden. Earth, wind, fire and rain. You would think it's sounds too good to be true. Time is actually your best friend in this world you created. Beware of the trap in thinking it's you, you, you. When in all regards your hand will have very little to do with the rewards of your labor.

August 4, 2011	#11
Gardenkeep Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SWMO Posts: 20	on a side note a tomato is just a weed

August 4, 2011	#15
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Agreed Dice, organic matter is best placed on top of the soil. That's how nature over time creates rich soils below. Compost mulches or even partially composted mulches are probably the quickest way to achieve long lasting results for gardeners who plant in soil because they are already rich in microbial life that is releasing nutrients and compounds like humic acids whose benefits reach deep into the soil. You mentioned "soil aggregation" earlier, which I think is very important point because many people I know who garden don't grasp how important it is to create an environment for soil microbes to flourish at the surface of the soil. I've noticed myself that in my beds that have had organic matter simply tilled into my heavy clay soil to fluff it up, if there were benefits for that season, those benefits didn't last long. But those beds that were mulched with organic matter had soil structure that was improved even the next season.