What makes it a beefsteak?

[tgplp]

I'm a bit confused. As I'm reading seed catalogs, some say the variety is a beefsteak, some say it is shaped like a beefsteak, some it is as big as a beefsteak... I thought a beefsteak is a meaty, thick, lobed variety.

So. What is it?


Taryn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tgplp

I'm a bit confused. As I'm reading seed catalogs, some say the variety is a beefsteak, some say it is shaped like a beefsteak, some it is as big as a beefsteak... I thought a beefsteak is a meaty, thick, lobed variety.

So. What is it?


Taryn

Beefsteak is both the name of a variety, also known as Crimsom Cushion or Ponderosa, as well as beefsteak being a description of a fruit shape.

The first good definition I've seen for beefsteak is in the 1939 Michigan State Bulletin, but it's too dark in here for me to go find that and post it right now.

But I do remember that beefsteak shape being described there as one where the length of the fruit is much longer that its height, so one could say boat shaped.

And yes, meaty with less seeds usually, depending on the specific variety, but nothing was said there about any lobes, and I've never thought of the fruits of a beefsteak shaped variety having to have lobes on the shoulders to be called beefsteak shaped .

[feldon30]

Yep beefsteak is a shape. Beefsteak is a variety that frankly hasn't really distinguished itself amongst the over 1,000 beefsteak-shaped varieties of tomato.

Just a few:
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...ink_Beefsteaks
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...low_Beefsteaks
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...steak_Tomatoes

[travis]

A thick slice from a beefsteak tomato looks like a small slab of meat rather than a pinwheel of seeds and gel that is reminiscent of citrus fruit.

[barkeater]

The definition of a beefsteak as I've always known it is what Travis said. A beefsteak has to be multilocular to meet the definition.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by barkeater

The definition of a beefsteak as I've always known it is what Travis said. A beefsteak has to be multilocular to meet the definition.

Bark, I'll buy the slab of meat comparison but Travis also said NOT a pinwheel of seeds, which means a multilocular fruit, many seed locules with many seeds, so I'm wondering if multilocular was what you really meant to say.

[Worth1]

A beefsteak is a slice of beef cut from a roast and grilled or cooked on a really hot skillet.

[Suze]

*subscribes to thread* Great question and looking forward to reading all the responses. I don't have an exact answer other than to say I tend to think of a beefsteak as a med-lg to lg fruit, a little on the flattened (or sometimes boat-shaped side) that is not too meaty, but also not overly seedy either. I have wondered at times myself what the criteria is for what some folks call a "beefsteak."

[Fusion_power]

I almost laughed when I read this thread because just 10 years ago I would not have known any more than has been posted here. A beefsteak tomato is any tomato that contains the Fasciated gene. Please read this article and pay attention to the modifier genes that affect fasciated.

http://www.genetics.org/content/33/4/405.full.pdf

You can also find the gene in tgrc as f.
http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/dat...start=nav.html

Carolyn will be pleased to know that one variant of f is what causes Reisetomate.


DarJones

[tgplp]

Thanks everyone! Lots of interesting replies. LOL, Worth!

Carolyn, I'm confused about what you are saying. I have to agree with Travis and Bark- a pinwheel of seeds would be bilocular or trilocular, like a cherry or salad tomato. Multilicular wouldn't make a pinwheel- it would make the misshapen or elongated shapes that beefsteaks make. So, a beefsteak IS multilocular. Right?

Taryn

[Suze]

Taryn, FWIW, to me a beefsteak is kind of one of those "you'll know it when you see it" sort of things, which obviously isn't too scientific and probably doesn't help move this thread along too much in terms of factual infomation.

Having said that, as far as I know there is no authoritative "generally accepted" definition for a beefsteak that everyone agrees with, again -- at least as far as I know.

But I could be wrong.

[Gobig_or_Gohome_toms]

I would define it as a larger tomato that fills out a blt sandwich. Going for the less scientific point of view here

Craig

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tgplp

Thanks everyone! Lots of interesting replies. LOL, Worth!

Carolyn, I'm confused about what you are saying. I have to agree with Travis and Bark- a pinwheel of seeds would be bilocular or trilocular, like a cherry or salad tomato. Multilicular wouldn't make a pinwheel- it would make the misshapen or elongated shapes that beefsteaks make. So, a beefsteak IS multilocular. Right?

Taryn

How I wish I had a camera and could show you what I mean. I can look in my heirloom tomato book and see the cut sections of many different varieties, and that sometimes helps to even confirm what a variety might or might not be along with other traits of a variety b'c the arrangtement of locules is one of the genetic traits of a specific variety.( I was just reading a bit about that from Darrel's first link in terms of inheritance of locules)

IS there anyone here who could show a cut section of something like Eva Purple Ball or any other variety that does have an arrangement of locules that do look like a pinwheel as they appear in a cut section vs a picture of a cut beefsteak where they usually don't look like that and are more amorphous, if you will, and less organized?

I suppose perhaps the best answer to date is that I'll know a beefsteak shape when I see one. And yes, I know that there is no one definition of what a beefsteak fruit should be as to its various parameters that satifies everyone but I thought the one from the 1939 MI State Bulletin was pretty darn good and reflected what I've observed.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

I almost laughed when I read this thread because just 10 years ago I would not have known any more than has been posted here. A beefsteak tomato is any tomato that contains the Fasciated gene. Please read this article and pay attention to the modifier genes that affect fasciated.

http://www.genetics.org/content/33/4/405.full.pdf

You can also find the gene in tgrc as f.
http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/dat...start=nav.html

Carolyn will be pleased to know that one variant of f is what causes Reisetomate.


DarJones

Pleased to know about Reisetomte and the f gene varient? Not so much pleased as finding it interesting. I can't think of even ONE other variety that looks like that. Can you?

I started to read your first link but it's long and it's early AM here so I'll have to put that on hold until I have the time to read it.

I do know about the f gene, primarily as it relates to the work that Dr. Esther Van der Knapp (sp?, too lazy to look it up) and her associates at Ohio State have been doing with regard to the evolution of the tomato and size increase over time.

[Suze]

Carolyn, if you give me a page # or var name for some variety in your book that you think is a textbook example of a beefsteak, I will scan and post that picture when I get a chance.