Some info on Lucky Cross, Little Lucky, and the three Cherokees (P, Ch, G)

**nctomatoman** · December 22, 2011

Over the last week I've gone back and looked at a few of the foundation varieties of my collection, to get a sense of how removed they are from the original source (or discovery).....it was quite interesting, actually!

So this is quite a tomato information/data geeky post for those curious about such things...

Cherokee Purple - the seed I got from J D Green is gone. There are three vials of seed grown from that seed - from 1990, 1991 and 1993. I actually grew out the 1993 seed last year - the one seedling from the 1991 seed took forever to get going and didn't produce a fruit.

Anyway - the most number of generations removed from the original JD Green seed is 6 - and I've got 5 different batches of seed that are 5 generations removed.. So even though I've had Cherokee Purple since 1990, I've not taken a linear approach with it - instead branching and bouncing around the various branches often. I like to try out my oldest good seed each year.....I've got in all 44 different vials of saved Cherokee Purple seed.

Cherokee Chocolate - this appeared as a mutation for me in 1995. My most remote sample is 5 generations removed from that discovery. I've got, in all, 25 different vials of saved Cherokee Chocolate seed.

Cherokee Green - appearing in 1997, my most remote sample is 6 generations removed from discovery, and in all, I have 20 different vials of saved seed.

Lucky Cross - this one is quite a tangle, because I've gotten side tracked by many other interesting selections - so many works in progress in this line!

But if we call the F1 seed that is sprinkled throughout seed sample 93-58, my most advanced generation is F11. It was identified at the F3, and named at the F6. So I was kind of surprised to find out that it is really quite well worked out at that advanced generation. Last year I went back and grew out quite a few of the F8 generation, and so now have a pretty large quantity of F9 seed (4 separate "lines" or branches of the massive tree that is now this project!).

Little Lucky - not quite as tangled as Lucky Cross my most advanced generation is now at F14! This was identified and named at the F5 generation - so we are really quite stable.

And yet there is still the odd unusual leaf seedling (usually in Lucky Cross - what I call the thread leaf potato leaf, which will not produce fruit), and the odd heart shaped offspring in Little Lucky - a testament to the wideness/complexity of the original cross, perhaps!

Fusion_power · December 22, 2011

I've seen both of those variants Craig. The thread leaf Lucky Cross which always dies early and the heart shaped Little Lucky.

Remind me that Lucky Cross needs to get sent to Randy Gardner. If he would cross it with his disease tolerant line, that has potential for a fantastic bicolor with disease tolerance.

DarJones

**nctomatoman** · December 22, 2011

I actually grew the thread leaf LX to 6 feet tall - the top of the plant looked like wires shooting out going haywire at the top of the plant. Something that looked like it wanted to be blossoms formed, even a hint of yellow flower petals - but it never set fruit! A relative of mine growing it in MA years ago actually got one to set fruit, and she said they were lobed, ugly things (like Reisetomate, I guess) - but she didn't save seeds! I think I am giving up on it....fortunately, it is not hard to spot even in young seedlings.

Little Lucky Heart is a good tomato - I've not really pursued it to see if the heart shape stabilizes easily.

travis · December 22, 2011

How do the vines from the older Cherokee Purple seed compare with the newest in terms of leaf shapes, fruit sizes, fruit interiors, vine heights, etc.?

tessa · December 22, 2011

the geek in ME wants to see a picture of the miles and miles of your vials and vials.

craig...i have no idea what you mean by 'thread leaf' potato leaf...but i grew lucky cross last year and it grew to be a big and healthy plant but, alas, set no fruit.
i'm growing 2 at the moment...so if you could describe this unusual leaf shape...maybe i can save myself the time if both of these are also not going to set fruit.

Fusion_power · December 22, 2011

Tessa, you would know it if you had it. It looks like something out of the little house of horrors. The cotyledons twist and curl and elongate and then the leaves do likewise. It is probably just a hox gene mutation.

DarJones

December 22, 2011	#1
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Some info on Lucky Cross, Little Lucky, and the three Cherokees (P, Ch, G) Over the last week I've gone back and looked at a few of the foundation varieties of my collection, to get a sense of how removed they are from the original source (or discovery).....it was quite interesting, actually! So this is quite a tomato information/data geeky post for those curious about such things... Cherokee Purple - the seed I got from J D Green is gone. There are three vials of seed grown from that seed - from 1990, 1991 and 1993. I actually grew out the 1993 seed last year - the one seedling from the 1991 seed took forever to get going and didn't produce a fruit. Anyway - the most number of generations removed from the original JD Green seed is 6 - and I've got 5 different batches of seed that are 5 generations removed.. So even though I've had Cherokee Purple since 1990, I've not taken a linear approach with it - instead branching and bouncing around the various branches often. I like to try out my oldest good seed each year.....I've got in all 44 different vials of saved Cherokee Purple seed. Cherokee Chocolate - this appeared as a mutation for me in 1995. My most remote sample is 5 generations removed from that discovery. I've got, in all, 25 different vials of saved Cherokee Chocolate seed. Cherokee Green - appearing in 1997, my most remote sample is 6 generations removed from discovery, and in all, I have 20 different vials of saved seed. Lucky Cross - this one is quite a tangle, because I've gotten side tracked by many other interesting selections - so many works in progress in this line! But if we call the F1 seed that is sprinkled throughout seed sample 93-58, my most advanced generation is F11. It was identified at the F3, and named at the F6. So I was kind of surprised to find out that it is really quite well worked out at that advanced generation. Last year I went back and grew out quite a few of the F8 generation, and so now have a pretty large quantity of F9 seed (4 separate "lines" or branches of the massive tree that is now this project!). Little Lucky - not quite as tangled as Lucky Cross my most advanced generation is now at F14! This was identified and named at the F5 generation - so we are really quite stable. And yet there is still the odd unusual leaf seedling (usually in Lucky Cross - what I call the thread leaf potato leaf, which will not produce fruit), and the odd heart shaped offspring in Little Lucky - a testament to the wideness/complexity of the original cross, perhaps! __________________ Craig

December 22, 2011	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I actually grew the thread leaf LX to 6 feet tall - the top of the plant looked like wires shooting out going haywire at the top of the plant. Something that looked like it wanted to be blossoms formed, even a hint of yellow flower petals - but it never set fruit! A relative of mine growing it in MA years ago actually got one to set fruit, and she said they were lobed, ugly things (like Reisetomate, I guess) - but she didn't save seeds! I think I am giving up on it....fortunately, it is not hard to spot even in young seedlings. Little Lucky Heart is a good tomato - I've not really pursued it to see if the heart shape stabilizes easily. __________________ Craig

December 22, 2011	#2
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	I've seen both of those variants Craig. The thread leaf Lucky Cross which always dies early and the heart shaped Little Lucky. Remind me that Lucky Cross needs to get sent to Randy Gardner. If he would cross it with his disease tolerant line, that has potential for a fantastic bicolor with disease tolerance. DarJones

December 22, 2011	#4
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	How do the vines from the older Cherokee Purple seed compare with the newest in terms of leaf shapes, fruit sizes, fruit interiors, vine heights, etc.?

December 22, 2011	#5
tessa Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: perth, western australia Posts: 1,031	the geek in ME wants to see a picture of the miles and miles of your vials and vials. craig...i have no idea what you mean by 'thread leaf' potato leaf...but i grew lucky cross last year and it grew to be a big and healthy plant but, alas, set no fruit. i'm growing 2 at the moment...so if you could describe this unusual leaf shape...maybe i can save myself the time if both of these are also not going to set fruit.