Black from Tula - disease resistance?

[supergirl]

I grew a couple of blacks last year and really liked Black Krim and Paul Robeson (Black Prince, not so much.) This year, after much trolling of the boards and Carolyn's book, I settled on Black from Tula and Carbon as my blacks. Very excited to try both, since I liked the blacks so much last year.

I planted two Black from Tulas. One looked great but got girdled by some sort of fungus early on and completely wilted. It's the only plant I've pulled so far. Now the other one seems to be started on a downhill slide. I've got a little foliar droop and a few yellow spots here and there on the others, and a bit of browning on the stems where I stupidly mulched too close, but all the others are holding up OK with a couple of applications of Daconil. The 2nd Black from Tula is the only other one I think I might need to pull, just kind of going through a general decline. I'm just hoping to nurse it through, or at least to get a few of the tomatoes on it to ripen up. How have others found it to be in terms of disease?

[carolyn137]

supergirl,

When asking about disease tolerance it's good to remember that there are two groups of disease, foliage infections which are initially acquired by airborne means and systemic infections which are soilborne.

When you say your plants are "girdled" and wilting can you describe that more b'c that would not be a foliage infection, and no variety, hybrid or OP has tolerance against foliage infections and if you're talking something like Alternaria Stem Canker, found almost exclusively in CA, or some others, then that's pretty serious stuff and for some of those diseases there are no known tolerances at all.

Juts trying to clarify the picture here.

[Tomstrees]

In an area where some of my plants
have foliar problems, my Black from Tula
plants seem to be holding up just fine !
Not sure if its "tolerant" but is doing
a bang up job so far.
Tonight or tomorrow night,
I'll be enjoying my first black tomato ever !

~ Tom

here is a pic form this morning:

[Fert1]

All I can tell you is that I have 15 plants this year, 13 different varieties, one each of most. Out of the 15, I've lost 4 plants to Early Blight. My Black from Tula was one of the 4. I did get about 4 fruit off it before it died. So it hasn't been one of the most resistant ones in my garden, but it's hard to say with growing only the one plant. Could just be luck of the draw.

As a general rule, I've found the black tomato varieties not to be very disease tolerant, with one exception, Cherokee Purple. It seems to hold up better than most, from my meager experience. I've heard the same from others. So there may be some truth to it. None are completely disease resistant though.

[supergirl]

Thanks all. This will be long, in order to fully describe my foolishness. Regarding the stem, I stupidly mulched too close to the stems of all the plants (I've written about this in another post. It was my first time mulching, and I was dumb.) Almost all of the stems turned brown for about an inch or two, but seem recovered once I moved the mulch away, with the exception of the one Black from Tula that I pulled. That was my first sign that anything was wrong. It completely wilted, fairly suddently, without turning yellow or getting any other symptoms. I thought it was just really thirsty, so I gave it extra water for a few days, then realized it wasn't perking up at all. When I took the cage off, it just flopped over, and that's when I noticed the stem thing. I haven't seen any fruiting bodies or fungus on any of the stems of any of the plants, and when I cut the one that died open, there was no brown or yellow inside, just on the outer part of the stem. I toted it inside and did the glass of water test (negative for ooze) and compared to pictures I could find, didn't match any of the descriptions. It's almost like a scar at this point. So, killing off the first one is probably my fault. I had been assuming it was fungus, but thinking it over, I may have just rotted it, especially when I started watering even more for the drooping.

I've sprayed the others with Daconil a couple of times, making sure i spray the stems as well as the leaves, and they seem to be unaffected by the brown, no drooping or progression of the brown. However, the second BfT is the one plant that is looking progressively more bleh. It had what I'm pretty sure is botrytis before any of this occurred -- I've had it on my roses before, and it was the one problem I was sure I had on the toms last year. Dark, waterlogged-looking spots on the leaves that sort of look like late blight but didn't dissolve into a mass of infected plant, with visible grey fuzz, primarily on some blossoms. I picked off everything that looked affected and started the Daconil then (Serenade seemed to reduce the overall occurrence - definitely a bigger issue last year - but was clearly not curing it once the plant actually had it.) I thought BfT was doing OK, the botrytis also seemed to sort of dry up, go away, and turn into what I think of as a plant scab. But now, it's looking generally sickly. One branch showed some of the same drooping and I cut it off at the base a couple of weeks ago. Another branch was just sort of limping along and not growing. Rest of plant has had yellow/brown spots on the leaves and just kind of beaten-down looking. I've definitely picked off a lot of leaves trying to slow the decline. I think maybe it's having some sort of vascular problem, since I notice that when I break off the affected leaves, they don't want to just snap off cleanly like on the other plants. There's more bending, and I've ended up cutting a lot of them off with pruners rather than damage the plant. It does have some brown streaks on the stem much further up than my mulch damage. No obvious signs of the botrytis, and I have been using Daconil regularly.

I do realize that there's a good chance the problem is self-inflicted, but I was curious given that it's two plants of the same kind having problems. The other 8 varieties are doing pretty well. I promise I will not mulch next to the stems next year.

[Suze]

Supergirl, a couple of points--

First off, I wanted to mention (in case you weren't aware) that Daconil does not work like a salve. In other words, frequently applying it to an affected area is not going to help it 'heal'. Daconil merely seals attachment sites on leaves for fungal spores.

Secondly, you might be having a combo of problems with the second plant, which can be confusing. Maybe it is still suffering a bit from having the mulch up against the stem AND is suffering from botrytis/gray mold?

If you think it is botrytis, I would encourage you to look through the following:
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...o_Botrytis.htm

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/t.../handbook.html
Gray Mold (fungus - Botrytis cinerea): Plants become more susceptible to this disease as they become older. It is mostly a problem in greenhouses, but it can also affect tomatoes in the field. The fungus first becomes established on dead leaves at the base of the plants. A heavy, gray growth of the fungus covers these, and numerous spores are soon found, giving the affected area a cottony appearance. Affected leaves collapse and shrink. The fungus progresses into the stem, producing cankers. Affected fruits first show a watersoaked, soft area in the points of infection. The dark gray growth of the fungus soon is seen on these spots. Regular fungicide applications should help in controlling this disease.
Botryosporium Mold (fungus - Botryosporium sp.): This fungus can often be found on greenhouse tomatoes. It superficially resembles gray mold.

[supergirl]

Thanks, Suze. Now that I read your post, I remember reading about Daconil working by sealing fungal attachment points in another thread. I think it was in an organic-nut "Daconil is poison" hijacked thread, so I may have been repressing that memory. I think I've seen mentioned that Daconil does seem to cure some fungal infection as well -- if I remember right someone commented on the verity of the "prevents and cures" on the label -- which is I guess where I got the salve sort of belief. It really does seem to have helped and stopped the disease from advancing, but maybe it's other factors as well.

I was writing from work earlier, so couldn't look at the plant. Now that I've looked again, I think you're on to something with the multiple problems. I am 99% certain that the initial problem was botrytis, since it did have the grey mold present, and I am familiar with the problem from other plants. I know my neighbor has it on their roses, so it could well be a source. The part that was throwing me off was that there hasn't been any more actual mold, but those occasional dark damp looking leaves mean it's probably still around. I think I may have a touch of something else going on as well (I think early blight, since I noticed some concentric rings in the yellow spots). Or, it could all be the sudden freakish heat and everything will be OK next week! I can only hope. 8)

[Kenyadenola]

It's strange to read this becausde I have never lost a plant until this year when the BFT just withered up and died. No explanation, One day it was green the next day it was a little brown, then the next day compeletly gone. I was really looking forward to it, and everytime I see a picture of it, my mouth waters, I'll just have to wait to get froom my Grandmother siince I gave her a plant also.