Wood Chips in place of Microbark?

[chilipepper]

I have a small mountain of shredded lilac bushes that I would like to use in place of the micro bark in my InnTainer. Are there any pros/cons to doing so? I've not been able to find the micro bark product here and everything else is fairly large chunks.

Thanks, Ryan

[dice]

You might need some extra nitrogen for the decaying wood (bacteria will
take it from the soil around them when digesting the wood; wood has a
high carbon-nitrogen ratio). How much, I do not know. You would simply
have to keep an eye on the plants and add more as necessary. Nitrogen
deficiency can be recognized by yellowing lower leaves on the plants (as
well as slow or nonexistent growth). This document has a picture of
nitrogen-deficient tomato leaves:
http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=5&id=289
The first illustration on this page is of a nitrogen-deficient tomato plant:
http://customers.hbci.com/~wenonah/min-def/tomatoes.htm

Fish meal, feather meal, and blood meal are all organic nitrogen
sources. The kind of fish emulsion that is made from cannery scrap
(5-1-1) is another source of mostly nitrogen. Calcium nitrate is an
inorganic source (do not overdo it; add small amounts to the reservoir
until the leaves look the way they should).

If you compost the shredded lilac bushes, the longer they have
composted, the less affect they will have on nitrogen levels in the
container media.

[chilipepper]

Thanks for all the information and links. The lilac chips are about 1 year old however not necessarily composted.

I'm just trying to follow the recipe for soil in the inntainer guide. I did find some coco-mulch locally. Would hat make a better addition in place of the micro bark or lilac chips?

Thanks again!
Ryan

[rnewste]

Ryan,

Give it a try, but I have always heard bad things happen with Hardwoods in SWC containers. I don't fully understand the "chemistry" but I am told resins and other components in Hardwoods such as Walnut will kill or damage tomato plants.

Microbark is the cheapest component of the 3:2:1 Combo Mix at $2.00 per cubic foot. Look for products which contain small pine bark often called "Clay Soil Conditioner" as an alternative.

Raybo

[chilipepper]

Thanks Raybo for the heads up on the hardwood in SWC's. I'll have to keep searching for something suitable. I have about a week or so before my starters are ready to be moved over. I've just found the site about a month ago and have been hooked ever since. My traditional last frost is May 18th so the Inntainers are definitely the way to go for me to get something started. However, since we are so far away from traditional planting season here the local retailers really do not have much stock to choose from.

BTW, this past Sunday was 84 degrees (mid 50's overnight) here so if our winter keeps up like this I could probably plant strait to the hoop house and be good!

Thanks! Ryan

[chilipepper]

Another thought and an abundant resource in my yard is pine straw? Could it be a suitable substitute for micro-bark?

[chilipepper]

How about this stuff for the micro bark replacement? Looks about right and from what I can tell through the bag (no information on the bag or web site) it looks like pine. What do you all think?

Thanks and sorry for being a pain!

[dice]

Thanks for all the information and links. The lilac chips are about 1 year old however not necessarily composted.

A year in how big of a pile? I cannot guarantee that you could use
that, but I might try it, at least in one container, and see what
happens (being prepared to add a little extra nitrogen some way
if necessary).

I'm just trying to follow the recipe for soil in the inntainer guide. I did find some coco-mulch locally. Would hat make a better addition in place of the micro bark or lilac chips?

Most of the coir around is shredded down to a fine, loose mix like peat
moss, which holds a lot more water than bark fines. But it does come
in larger chunks, too, which would probably work like the bark fines in
the Earthtainer/Inntainer guides. Here is an example, they call it
coir "chips" (chips of coconut shells, I guess):
http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134069
That coco-mulch could be chips or it could just be a mix of coir of all
sizes.

[sprtsguy76]

I personally wouldn't use it, it may still tie up alot of N. I wouldn't use any hardwood composted or not, but thats just me. I use only fir bark or pine bark.

Damon

[kenny_j]

I finally found some shredded Michigan red pine, which looks like mostly bark, with more big pieces than ideal, at a landscaping supply chain (Bedrock Express). Not sure how aged it is, does look somewhat dark. It is getting late in the game, but I did not learn about pine bark as the preferable potting mix for outside containers until recently. How long would this take to decompose enough to make proper mix? Anyway to hasten decomp? Was thinking if I go ahead and get it, to add nitogen to bark, wet and cover with black plastic. How long til it breaks down enough?
Add: The stuff I found is by the yard, $35. It sets outside, in a huge pile, uncovered and looks similar to the pic above, but much blacker, I am thinking it may be partially composted already. Gonna get a yard on Monday. Any thoughts?
kj
Just saw Ami's post on another thread, about 5-7 weeks for decent compost. I don't have that much time so gonna do the best with what is available. Will watch for Iron defict as well as N.

[sprtsguy76]

If its mostly bark I would not worry about it being composted/aged or not. Problem with bigger than ideal peices is that the young plant will grow into it fine but when it gets big enough and the water demand increases if you dont stay on top of the watering and keep those large peices of bark wet enough your plant will go south fast. You can sift it with 1/4" or 1/8" wire mesh, but its a little bit of work.

Damon

[kenny_j]

Damon, can you explain? What is the exact effect the larger pieces will have on the plant if not wet? Or do you mean the whole mix will be dryer, the more big pieces in it the less overall moisture retention??

[chilipepper]

What I ended up doing was getting a bag of the large chunk pine bark and running it through my chipper a couple of time to get it down to small pieces. Seems to work good and plants are doing very well after 2 weeks in the inntainers. In my case they are kind of in-and-out-tainers. The bush beefsteaks are starting their first set of flower buds. I will likely add some tiger bloom this week to the water reservoir and give it a little boost during flowering. Overall the mix seemed to be pretty nice with the shredded bark and using the 3-2-1 mix.

We'll see how it goes. My plants are at my office and so they spend their weekend under HPS lighting and then while I'm there during the week they go out in the entry way where has full southern exposure.

Good luck with your mix.

BTW, I think what Damon is getting at is that the larger chunks will not hold moisture very well as well as occupy a large amount of container volume. As water demand increases and the plants mature the delivery of moisture will not be as efficient as with smaller chunks. In my understanding, the pine is there more for a buffer of sorts to keep the soil soft and porous and doesn't retain, carry and deliver moisture very well.

Good Luck!
Ryan

[kenny_j]

Thanx, ryan, thats how I took it, after I thought about it. I dont have a chipper, so I'll try to screen out the big pieces. Will get a yard or 2 on monday, and cover w/ black plastic, water, and fertilizer for a couple weeks, then start potting to final destination pots. Extra will go on flower beds for mulch, which I need anyways on a lot of beds. Need to find some 1/2 inch screen.
kj

[Rootwad]

Can or will wood chips cause a termite problem? If so I would not put them near a building foundation.