Pretty Please?????

[carolyn137]

I think this is the right Forum to reach the most folks, so here's what I'm asking pretty please about/

I spend perhaps 80-90% of my time here and have since the first week that Tville opened in Jan of 2006. But I do read elsewhere and before Tville I read/posted at many places and I have been so concerned about primarily traded seeds being wrong for the variety, yes, same can occur with seeds from commercial places as well, but not nearly the numbers that are asssociated with traded seeds.

At Garden Web I used to put up a wrong varieties thread each year and it was a real eye opener.

So......... I'm highly suggesting that first, no one sow new varieties they haven't grown before without knowing the following:

Correct spelling of the variety name and noting where the seeds were purchased from or from who you received them in trade and contact info as well.

Information about the variety so you know you've got the right variety when the plants mature and fruit.

Plant habit, whether indet, det, dwarf, whatever.

Leaf form and traits, potato leaf (PL), regular leaf (RL), angora foliage, rugose foliage, which most TRUE Dwarfs have.

Fruit color
Fruit size
Fruit shape

Information at many sites will give you different info, not for fruit color, but for fruit size. Those who are SSE members here can tell you that if lots of folks list the same variety, fruit sizes are all over the lot b/c there are so many variables associated with fruit size in general.

If you trade seeds, which I don't except for unusual circumstances like someone sending me a new previously undistributed heirloom or something unique, write on the trade envelope your original source of seeds and the seed age and anything else you feel will be helpful to the recipient. Time and time again I see folks saying , when they get a wrong variety, that they don't know how to contact the person who traded with them, so always send contact info as well.

Finally, I'm not at all shy about saying that I would prefer to see folks buying at least half of their seed from commercial places. it's those places, along with the SSE catalog and YEarbooks that have allowed for so many wonderful varieties to be preeserved and made more available to the public at large.

In addition, the profit margin at most seed places is low indeed and in these economic times I think it makes sense to help them out by buying a good proportion of the seeds you want.

Yes, I know the thrill and chase after obscure varieties, I seldom have done it with tomato varieties, but have with many perennials.

So, just some general suggestion that might help, especially for those who are relatively new persons getting involved with growing tomatoes, but for sure, some of the even "older" folks who have been growing tomatoes in some cases many decades.

Every year for several years now I get e-mails or PM's from folks who ask me to look for my oldest saved seeds of certain varieties since there are an increasing number of varieties that have gone south and are no longer what they should be. Since about 1990 I've saved seeds from almost all varieties I've grown and they reside and repose here at home. Just in the past several years I've sent out seed from 92 and 93 that some folks have been able to revive and if you look in the Wanted Forum of the Seed Exchange you'll see the so called Tadesse Project where I provided the old seeds and that b'c there wasn't ONE place where true Tadesse seeds could be found.

So you see, I do have an ulterior motive, and that's to try and lessen the percentage of varieties that aren't what they should be due to traded seeds and the first steps are what I wrote above.

No, few can ensure pure seeds unless they bag blossoms or do geographic isolation, but that's a totally separate topic which I would prefer to not see discussed here since there are already many threads when one does a search here.

Thanks for reading and considering what I wrote above.

[b54red]

Carolyn if we do all that then we will be robbing future tomato addicts of many of the wonderful surprises in store for them when they grow out seed and try to figure out what went wrong.

[Douglas14]

Very good post Carolyn! I think it's important to keep these heirloom seeds pure, as some have been for many generations. It's a disappointment to plant a seed of a variety, and get something that clearly is different. With the advice you've given, we can help each other stop the dissemination of incorrectly named, or impure seeds.

[rockhound]

Thank you Carolyn for stating concisely what many of us have thought about. Since my garden has shrunk and not likely to ever expand again, I seldom trade seeds of any kind but I remember too well makeing a swap and getting a packet of seeds in a scrap of paper rolled up like a BC Powder, marked "tom" with no other info. I'm glad that is over for me but for those still trading, information- accurate information, is still the key to making the process work.

[rsg2001]

Carolyn, I agree with you and have largely purchased from providers like TGS, who in the 15 or so years I purchased, I only had one instance of a problem, when several Cherokee Chocolate seeds grew a smaller tomato while there were others that gave me what was on the label. No big deal; they were a "saladette" type black tomato that grew true the next year (I saved the seed to see), so I figured it was just a little mixup. However, this year, there just seemed to be several reputable people, besides your own seed offer, whose offers I found too good to pass up, offering some varieties that I had not grown before. This is the first time I have ever dove in. I also became intrigued with the Dwarf Project and am participating in that as well, and very much looking forward to an interesting season. I just started my seeds this past weekend (or at least most of them... I need to get another flat or two but don't mind putting a week or so in-between). I will give a full report on everything once things get going. And I did buy a few packets from TGS anyway because I needed some fresh seed for my "tried and true" varieties such as Black Cherry and Lemon Boy (which TGS ran out of last year).

[ljp]

Carolyn,

I'm still relatively new at this. I am keeping better records. Last year I even labelled my plants. This year I'm keeping track of seed sources (only direct not predecessors), days to germinate, leaf type. I will try to work on morphology and fruit type. However, looking at leaf types I have and at least one thread I read recently, putting correct labels on plant characteristics isn't always cut and dried. So far, all my leaf types are correct -- I think.

I agree that better records are a good idea and keeping them isn't as hard as I expected.

[lakelady]

Since most of my seeds are purchased, the seed packs have the info I need, but I do keep a spreadsheet I call "Tomato Seed Sources" where I note the variety, source, RL or PL or Rugose, D or I, etc. Then I double check my facts against Tomatobase or another good source to make sure I have the right information. Sort of a pain to track all that, but it really helps me once the seedlings are up and I can verify what I have (or don't).

Now I do have a something growing that was purchased from a vendor that I thought was Sophie's Choice, but leaves don't match the description in Carolyn's book or the company website, so who knows..it sure is pretty though!

[celerystalksmidnite]

Carolyn, great pointers. I'm also curious about your opinion of the possible effect on varietal stability that people planting only one plant of a given variety and then saving seed might have? It seems like over time it might have a detrimental effect. Would you discourage seed trading among growers who are saving seed this way?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by celerystalksmidnite

Carolyn, great pointers. I'm also curious about your opinion of the possible effect on varietal stability that people planting only one plant of a given variety and then saving seed might have? It seems like over time it might have a detrimental effect. Would you discourage seed trading among growers who are saving seed this way?

Growing one plant of a variety is OK b/c unless there's been a cross pollination or mutation, all the seeds in all the fruits of that plant should be pretty much identical.

But I don't think it's the best way to save seeds, but for another reason.

Saving seeds from fruits, never one fruit, and from fruits from more than one plant dilutes out any cross pollinated seed and I've distributed many hundreds of seeds for a variety until a cross pollinated seed appears giving rise to an alien plant.

First, when seed trading occurs how are you going to know if only one plant was used, or if the blossoms were bagged or whatever? At some sites where seeds are traded, the person my say, from bagged blossoms or geographic isolation, but that would be rare indeed/

I used to do a wrong varieties thread at GW for many years and THE most prevalent origin of X pollinted seeds/plants was from Traded seeds. Sure, you can get X pollinated seeds for some reputable seed sites, but nowheres as high as those yearly threads indicated from traded seeds.

It's one reason I am NOT a fan or seed trading. Sure I understand the challenge to score some good ones for an SASE or even a free offer, but I usually only trade seeds with a few folks I know and have known for a very long time.

Besides, trading seeds certainly does lower the cost of seeds, but I've also posted here that in these economic times it makes sense to me to purchase a good portion of the seeds you need in order to help out the many small family run businesses that offer those seeds which also is a mechanism for variety preservation.

If you look at the Wanted subforum of the Seed Exchange you'll finds an interesting thread about the variety Tadesse. There are currently, to my knowledge, no place where the proper seeds are being offered. So I found my 1994 seeds and sent them to four folks, well, I'll let you read that thread.

Every year I get requests to look through my seed stash for varieties that have gone south, as it were. Tania has asked me for quite a few, Randy S the same and several other folks as well.

I've not thrown out any of my saved seeds since 1991 so I think that helps. As I recall Remy asked me for Box Car Willie seeds, b'c that one has gone south at some places, so has Opalka and off hand I can' think of all the others.

And most of them from traded seed, some from commercial sources, which is to be expected with OP varieties, but mainly traded seeds that were not right for the variety being passed around and the folks doing that not being aware of what's right for a variety and the folks growing those not being aware of the specs for a variety either.

Thus, the reason I posted this Pretty Please thread.

I hope that helps.

[celerystalksmidnite]

That's good news. I don't have a lot of room and I'd like to save seeds on some varieties. I'd be reluctant to trade them for the very reasons you cite.

We have yet another thing to be grateful to you for, in that you are doing so much to preserve these varieties as they should be. That's interesting about Opalka. It did not grow like Opalka for me, either. I'll throw the seed packet away now that I know this is a known problem.

What I'd really like is a revival of Rostova. For some reason, probably the reputed cold tolerance, I got it in my head several years ago to try it in a fall garden and the idea has never left me. I'm sure there are better varieties, but we all get our particular notions.

*going to read about Tadesse*

[celerystalksmidnite]

That was an exciting thread, as far as tomato growing goes. Thanks for the heads up. "The race for Tadesse..." hahaha! Now I want to grow this one, once it gets 'straightened out.'

[Aubergine]

Thank you very much for this thread Carolyn.
You speak completely out of my heart.
Sometimes I feel alone in this world with my thinking about buying and trading seeds.
I also mean, that people that send crossed seeds all around, they do not preserve, but they destroy some precious varieties.

[Benjy]

Thanks Carolyn for this info...I have so much to learn...I hope I have enough space to absorb it...what heirlooms do you recommend for south Georgia's heat and humidity?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Benjy

Thanks Carolyn for this info...I have so much to learn...I hope I have enough space to absorb it...what heirlooms do you recommend for south Georgia's heat and humidity?

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...umid+varieties

Benjy, I think it's best to read what others in hot humid climates suggest, thus the link above and if you do a search here I know you'll come up with even more suggestions.

I grow tomatoes where there may be short periods of high heat and humidity, but nothing like what you in GA, FL, along the Gulf Coast have to deal with.

I read through the above thread and while I know most of the varieties mentioned I know how they would perform for me b'c I've grown them, but not how they would do in those areas where there's almost constant heat and humidity.

Hope that helps.

[Benjy]

Thanks Carolyn for the info