Tomatopalooza - enjoyed it.

[Fert1]

I enjoyed meeting all the people and sampling all the tomtaoes at Tomatopalooza.

Things I noted about a few varieties:

The BrandyBoy I sampled was quite good. Gives me hopes for this one. I plan to try growing it next year.

Cherokee Green was tasty. I took a few seeds back from this one.

It was my first time to sample currant tomatoes. Most of them were not to my tastes, but a few were. I especially enjoyed a gold colored one. I think it was labeled Cerese or something along those lines. It didn't really taste like a tomato though. It was very sweet, and had a flavor that reminded me of muscadine grapes or maybe scuppernongs. It was more like eating a sweet fruit than a tomato. Some say that about SunGold, but to me SunGold still tastes like a tomato. This didn't. This one would make a good jelly or wine or something. I took a few for seeds, since there were lots.

Matt's Wild Cherry - there are definitely 2 different things out there going by that name. I grew it once, and got a cherry about the size of SunGold. It had a slightly funky aftertaste, but I got used to it after a while, and came to like it at least a little.

The Matt's Wild Cherry I tried this past weekend was a currant tomato. The size, color and flavor were all completely different from what I grew. I think the currant tomato actually tastes better. It was very sweet like SunGold, but tomatoey too. Yes, I took a few of those for seeds too! Thanks Jenn!

I tried so many of them that after a while I forgot what I did or didn't like. Next time, I'm taking notes. I did remember the real stand-outs though!

Anyone who sampled my Rose tomato - don't judge it too harshly. It's usually better. None of my tomatoes have been as tasty this year as they have in years past. They've all been a little mealy this year, and blander than usual.

[Worth1]

Holly
What were the differences in growing conditions this year as compared to years past?
Weather
Soil
Fertilizer
Temperature etc.
Glad you enjoyed, I hope we can have something like that here some time soon.

Worth

[feldon30]

What I know of Matt's Wild Cherry is a marble-sized tomato. Nowhere near cherry-sized.

[carolyn137]

Holly,

Matt's Wild Cherry is not a currant tomato as was ASAP explained at Johnny's, who first introduced it.

It's L.lycopersicon var cerasiforme, and the cerasiforme tells you it does NOT have the features of most true currant tomatoes ( see below) and is considered a half domesticated cherry.

I've grown several different red currants and I'll note that tastes can vary quite a bit and the one that I think is superb is Sara's Galapagos although it, too, as with other so called currants may be a stable cross.

There are some yellow/gold currants, but when you say Cerese, I'm thinking Cerise Orange, which are small half inch orange cherries, but Cerise Orange is not a currant tomato either.

Just b'c a variety has wee fruits it can't be concluded that it's a currant tomato for there are other features of currant tomatoes that should be present such as the specific light colored small foliage that is hairy, the hairy stems, the open branching nature of a truss and often the exerted stigma's.,

[Fert1]

Yeah, I know that Matt's Wild Cherry is not supposed to be a Current Tomato, and what I grew was not, but I suspect there is a current tomato out there that is now also going by that name somehow. You mentioned Sara's Galapagos. There were some of those at the tasting as well, and they were about the same size as the "Matt's Wild Cherry" presented there, possibly the SG was the bigger of the two. Is the real Matt's Wild Cherry supposed to be that tiny? What I grew was nowhere near that tiny. Are there many tomato varieties that are that tiny that aren't currant tomatoes?

As far as whether the plant has any of the other things typical of a current tomato, such as the hairy stems and foliage, you would have to ask Jenn, the very nice lady who brought them. Maybe she will see this thread and chime in with an answer. Jenn's version of MWC is definitely NOT what I grew. It actually tastes a good bit better than what I grew, currant or not. The flavor reminded me of some of the currant tomatoes present, but it was one of the better ones, (if it is a currant tomato).

I remember seeing an argument on Gardenweb at one time as to whether MWC was or was not a currant tomato, with people arguing the point on both sides. If there is the real MWC and a currant masquerading by the same name, it could explain some of the confusion about that particular one. I did bring a few home for seeds. I can let everyone know what the plants look like when I grow it out, most likely next year. Maybe it's Matt's Faux Wild Cherry. LOL!

[carolyn137]

I don't remember any thread at GW debating whether or not MWC is a currant or not.

I can't even see why that discussion would arise since the good folks at Johnny's Selected seeds went out of their way to ID it or have it IDed as NOT being a currant as I mentioned above and so stated in their catalog when they first introduced it.

And why would they do that? B/c the question often comes up if wee fruited varieties ARE currants, in which case a certain percentage of them have exerted stigma's, they can then theoretically be a factor in X pollinations b'c they must be insect pollinated and the pollinators spread that pollen elsewhere.

Keith has said that he'd be more worried about his non-currants xing with his currants, but the fact remains that the potential for currants to cause problems is there.

Quite a few years ago there was a variety called Maine Berry, a wee yellow thing, that was being sold from home via ads in gardening magazines.

My SSE friend Bill Minkey bought some and what a mess, b'c it turned out that Maine Berry was a true currant with exerted stigma's and poor Bill had one huge debacle on his hands.

B/c one of the ads was in Organic Gardening, when they heard it was a currant they posted a HUGE boxed warning about it in Organic Gardening.

As for how many wee fruited varieties are or are not currants, I can only tell you that some are and some aren't and that most folks don't know what traits go along with currants other than wee fruit size in order to properly ID it.

And this has come up when I've been proofing the tomato pages in the SSE Public catalog, several times. Just look there and note that the wee fruited ones ARE Ided as to whether or not they are currants or not. Not by me, but SSE has had someone look at the varieties being grown by them and make the call.

What can confuse the issue even more is that many so called wild accessions are clearly stable crosses with something else so the traits expressed are not pure.

When I first got Sara's Galapagos I contacted The Rick Center and since I knew what island it came from they were able to tell me that on that island there were many accessions that were not pure this or that, and Sara's Galapagos does not have all the features of a true currant. Nevertheless I've always treated it as one re possible X pollination.

I've grown MWC twice, wee fruits of the same size both times, and I wouldn't grow it again b'c I don't like the taste at all. But that's my taste buds and the plants being grown in my garden, and that's how it goes.

I hope this helps.

[Fert1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I don't remember any thread at GW debating whether or not MWC is a currant or not.

I can't even see why that discussion would arise since the good folks at Johnny's Selected seeds went out of their way to ID it or have it IDed as NOT being a currant as I mentioned above and so stated in their catalog when they first introduced it.

Well, I agree that the real MWC is NOT a currant tomato, but I do recall seeing it debated. I am not saying that it is a currant tomato, just that I remember that being discussed before. But currant or not, I think there are definitely 2 entirely different varieties out there going by that name, unless there is some instability within the variety. There seems to be the official one, and something else that has somehow picked up the name, MWC. So the real MWC is teeny-tiny? What I grew was not. It wasn't a huge cherry, about the same size as SunGold, for those familiar with that variety. I'm pretty sure I got my seeds from Johnny's. So I should have had the real thing. I noted several differences from what I grew and what Jenn grew.

Mine were what I consider normal cherry size, a little on the smallish side, 1/2 inch, maybe slightly bigger.

Jenn's were tiny, about the size of little green garden peas.

Mine were a orangy-red color, sort of a rusty-red with an almost translucent skin.

Jenn's were a true red, very opaque skin, what an artist friend of mine would refer to as a blue-red as opposed to an orange-red. I would describe them as having about the same coloration as a very ripe strawberry.

The flavor was very different. Mine was not a sweet tomato at all, tangy with an odd aftertaste. Jenn's tomatoes were extremely sweet, no funky aftertaste.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get to the bottom of what is actually going on here. I just find it odd and would love to know what's up. I know environmental conditions will affect a variety, but it seems like there are too many differences for environmental conditions alone to account for it all. Pretty sure there are 2 different things out there going by the name - the real thing and an imposter.

[nctomatoman]

Very interesting - Denise from NC also noted that the Mexico Midgets she got from Victory were significantly larger than the ones I brought - as in no way it could be environmental.

And there is the possible relationship between MM and MWC, etc....

I've never seen Cerise before - looked like an orange version of Mexico Midget (I've not yet grown Matts, or Sara;s G)

[feldon30]

The "official" story of Matt's Wild Cherry:

Teresa Arellanos de Mena, a friend of University of Maine AG faculty members, Drs. Laura Merrick and Matt Liebman, brought seeds to Maine from her family's home state of Hidalgo in Eastern Mexico. It's the region of domestication of tomatoes. The original seeds were picked from plants growing wild.

[gardenmama]

I was the one who brought the Mexico Midgets that were bigger than the ones brought by Craig (mine were in a small clear plastic bowl instead of on a plate). I did get the seeds from Mike at Victory Seed company. In tasting both the smaller and larger ones at Tomatopalooza IV, I couldn't detect any significant difference in flavor. Both packed humongous tomato taste into an itty bitty package. I did grab a few of Craig's correctly sized MM's for seed saving for next season.

In regards to the "currant, non-currant" name confusion, I've taken to calling all of the 1/2" or smaller sized varieties as "Pearl type" when describing them to customers, unless it is indeed a true "currant tomato" (of which I don't have any that I am aware of at this time). Seems to simplify things in their minds

[feldon30]

Pearl. I like that. I'd been using "Marble-sized".

[Fert1]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Holly
What were the differences in growing conditions this year as compared to years past?
Weather
Soil
Fertilizer
Temperature etc.
Glad you enjoyed, I hope we can have something like that here some time soon.

Worth

This year has been HOT HOT HOT and DRY DRY DRY, which is kind of typical for this region in the summer, but the last 3-4 years have been very wet and a little cooler than usual, but still hot. So the main difference this year is everything is hotter and dryer. I would have thought that would mean better flavor rather than worse. I guess any extreme is bad though.

I like the term pearl tomatoes for the tiny ones. That's about right. I think of marbles as being bigger than that. Maybe that's the term we should use - pearl.

Oh, BTW, I did send a PM to Jenn and found out her seed source for MWC was Marianna's Seeds, for what that's worth. Jennifer said she would try to join in this thread later on when she has the time. She is also going to look at her plants to see if they are more hairy than the usual tomato.

I can't help myself. A mystery will suck me in every time. My curiosity gets the better of me.

[jenn_sc]

For what it's worth:

Yes, I got my seeds from Marianna's Seeds. I went out yesterday and had a good look at my plants. They are not hairy. They do sprawl and spread low to the ground.

My husband LOVES these tomatoes. I share the opinion of my step-father-in-law: "They take too long to pick, and you can't even make a tomato sandwich out of 'em!" I like slicers, but will continue to look for tasty cherries, currants, and "pearls" for him. As cherries go, these MWC DO have a nice flavor.

Jennifer

[patty_b]

I have two plant in my garden this time that I have been worried were currant. Now I can go check for hairy stems as soon as the storm passes........are there any other traits to ID? Patty

[Fert1]

Originally Posted by patty_b

I have two plant in my garden this time that I have been worried were currant. Now I can go check for hairy stems as soon as the storm passes........are there any other traits to ID? Patty

The exerted stigma, but I can't tell you what that looks like. For that we need the experts to comment. I figure hairy leaves and stems are pretty obvious. If that is missing, sounds like it's not a currant.

Jenn, sounds like what you have, that I sampled, is not a currant tomato, but just a very small cherry, pearl tomato. It is still very different from what I grew as MWC though, so I think there are 2 different things out there going by that name. I like the pearl tomato version better of the two. Glad that it's not a currant tomato, and won't be likely to interfere with any seed saving I might want to do.

You say it grows low to the ground and spreads out. What I grew had a different growth habit too. It was more long and narrow, than short and bushy. It got very tall though, like a lot of cherry tomatoes tend to do. It's growth habit was similar to SunGold, but not quite as vigorous.