Need help please !

[JohnWayne]

I was told in another forum that I needed to add compost/humus to my garden.

The stuff/brand I was told to get is not sold at any Walmart within 50 miles and Lowe's quit carrying it that very week.

I don't know anything about such things. I garden like I saw my father in law doing. I have always added 10-10-10 and lime and thats it other than a little Miracle grow now and then.

So, Now I am told I need organic matter, something I don't understand but I'm willing to do if only I had a clue as to what I need.

The choices are slim, Black cow or one of the following

http://www.lowes.com/LowesProductCom...ost%26page%3D2

Many thanks if someone would care to tell me which if any of these will be suitable !

[ContainerTed]

Well, "Duke", check around with your local nurseries and find one that's selling MUSHROOM COMPOST. Most of the ones around here want about $20 to $25 bucks for the equivalent of one cubic yard. If you don't have access to a truck, some will deliver for a fee.

This fall, catch your leaves (no walnut or hickory leaves) and munch them up and add them to your garden. Till them in after you clean up the garden for winter and before the first real freeze. This will get plenty of "organic" stuff into the soil. The "fluff" this creates allows the rain and any watering to penetrate deeper and stay longer. It also allows a little bit of air to get to the root system so the plants don't feel like they have wet feet all the time.

You can also use grass clippings from the mower, but if the grass being mowed is too long, you may end up with a lot of grass "seeds" being inadvertantly planted.

Coffee grounds and other veggie matter from the kitchen can also add to the garden. Many folks around here simply go to the garden, dig a hole, throw the food leftovers in, and cover it up. Next time they dig the hole somewhere else in the garden. All of this gets tilled in eventually.

Hope this takes some of the anxiety out of your day.

[Crandrew]

Ted laid it out. Think circle of life.


You could also try composted chicken and steer manure.

[RebelRidin]

Two thumbs up for the mushroom compost and the rest of what Ted said. Only thing I would add about adding the leaves and yard waste is to be careful of grass clippings if the lawn is treated with herbicides.

In the Carolina's you may find a lot of bulk compost based on poultry litter. That should be be OK too. A mixture of it and mushroom compost would be even better. IMO either are better than the bagged stuff you showed and getting it in bulk will be more economical (unless you are doing a very small area). I am not familiar with "Black Cow" other than a root beer float. If I had to go with bagged stuff.... I would look for the one that just says compost or composted manure and was was the lightest for the same volume bag. That would be more likely to be purely organic matter rather than some topsoil based "soil mix" that had been fluffed up a bit.

As for how much? Add a few to several inches over the whole garden or at least in the rows where you intend to plant, then till in well to a depth of 8 to 10 inches. That seems a common suggestion. Just general guidelines. Lots of room for play there.

[Crandrew]

I know HD carries composted chicken manure for 3.50 a cubic ft. Which to mean seems like a decent deal if you cant find it in bulk. It was a rich dark humus that seems to be well composted because the smell was light.

[JohnWayne]

I have been trying to find horse or cow or chicken manure for a while now. There is a company 60 miles from me that makes and sells composted cow, chicken and cow mix, mushroom or mushroom and cow mix. LOL But they won't answer the phone !

Waiting on a call now from a man with horse. This is whats is cleaned from the stables.

Got the call and the man said come get all I wanted free. Not sure (doubtful even) that it has been turned etc to make compost. But seeing that it is the only game in town LOL I guess burning the tomato plants up is no worse than watching them grow and not put on fruit.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Black Kow is pretty good stuff. IIRC, that is a key ingredient in the 'Earls Hole' planting method. I have used it multiple times with good success. However, it is kind of pricy, so if you have a large area to do, you might want to look for bulk providers.

[simmran1]

Another thumb up for mushroom compost. I paid $5. for 1.5 cu. ft. in a bag.
I can now see a difference in growth in the area that got the MC, so it’s worth it.
(to me)
We are not privy to the original question or statement at the other forum,
but I assume it was due to good or rampant growth and not setting fruit.
A common reason for abundant growth with little to no fruit set is too much N, nitrogen.

To avoid this condition, many on this forum are mostly, or 100% organic

Maybe rather than enhancing the entire garden soil, a less expensive alternative would be
to ‘spot enhance’ after planting with a ring of Espoma Tomato-Tone, (available @ Lowe’s)
and watering with compost tea and/or kelp.

Personally I only build up the garden soil in the fall when I empty the compost bin.
After the summer heat, that’s some good stuff! And as suggested- mowed leaves,
or if you have a leaf shredder, till or rake in all except leaves from trees mentioned above.
-R

[livinonfaith]

Take the manure, for sure! But don't use it this year if it's fresh. Put it somewhere out of the way so that it can compost for next year. Even better, mix it with some other stuff (grass, leaves) and let it compost.

Seriously, the tomatoes will do better without anything than they will if they're dead!

I've heard that Black Cow is good. You could try a mixture of that and some of that other stuff. I wouldn't try to overdo it. Sometimes it's better to add a medium amount and not have quite as much as you wanted than to go overboard and have too much.

Have you tested your soil? That might give you an idea if there are any major problems that need to be addressed.

[JohnWayne]

Simmran1, The meat of that topic on another thread was about how I was planting 250 tomato plants every year and having to buy tomatoes. The plants were not setting fruit and I had it in mind that it was because of out lack of honey bees. I bet I could hold all the honey bees I saw last year in my two hands at once.

Another problem that may go hand in hand with the bees is the wet weather. The ground remained so wet I was very late getting my garden in. (I'm late this year but not as bad.) So, lack of bees and heat and then being told my garden was likely in need of organic matter. I was getting quite depressed at my lack of options.

Thank you one and all for your input ! Sorry I've been slow getting back to you but I've been very busy hauling horse manure and cutting bamboo for stakes !

My trailer is an all steel 6 x 10 foot and so far I have hauled 3 loads of manure piled high. The one thing the owner asked was that I pack it down so none fell out along his driveway. And I have taken pains to make sure I left nothing but tracks. After so long not finding anything I feel very blessed and thankful.

The Bamboo is on average 2 inches in diameter and cut roughly in 8 foot lengths. I hope to use it for Florida weave on a row or two and to make overhead string trellis for a row. I've never done either. 1 stake to a plant has been my way for a long time. And in the last few years I have been using 4 six foot long bamboo stakes tied together at the top to make a tee pee. Works well but I always end up with indeterminate plants and I wonder if having them so close together might have added to the other troubles like lack of bees.

So I'm doing lots different this year in hope that the effort won't be for nothing. I have tilled a ring around a weeping cherry tree in the field beside the house. It is 80 feet around, 36 inches wide and I covered it in 3 inches of compost and tilled that in. Monday I will plant my first tomato plants there.
6 Brandywines, 6 Lemon Boys, 6 Cherokee purple and 12 Boxcar Willie's. There will be a few hot pepper plants in there as well and a few cucumbers.

My garden is about half tilled. I plan to finish tilling and do my planting there on Monday as well. About 100 Rutger plants, 40 New Hampshire Surecrop, 50 Kellogg's breakfast, and 16 seed that came up from a packet marked only Beefsteak.

A 100 foot row of Collards, about the same in cucumbers, likely 10 hills of crook necked squash, a row of runner beans (McCaslin's normally but looking for suggestions this year) and 1 or 2 rows of State half runners. And a row of Okra.

Whats left will be planted in Ambrosia cantaloupes, watermelons and a few pumpkins... LOL Wish me luck !

[JohnWayne]

As to cover crops for this fall, What should I plant ? Should I leave it all winter or let it grow, till it in and do it again all winter ?

I know Collard greens will grow all winter here.

[Lcottomsvcs]

Hi JohnWayne,

I am a beekeeper and it makes me sad when people share about the lack of bees in their area. Wild bees are having a tough time because of lack of nectar flowers (herbicide spraying) and other poisons (insecticides) they encounter. Have you thought of adding flowers in/around your garden, to attract the bees and help them out? I do this every year, even before I kept bees. It was the lack needed pollinators one year that got me started in beekeeping in the first place!

A few flowers will bring the bees, and they will stay to pollinate your melons, pumpkins, etc. Just a suggestion. Sounds like you have a pretty huge garden already.

Lora

[JohnWayne]

I have a field beside the house and I have thought about sowing a wildflower seed there. My yard is full of clover and I am happy to say I have already seen more bees this year than the last 3 or 4 years together..

I have a couple of friends who have started keeping bees. I asked one of them to set a catch hive near the house but he said no. Said he would just set a hive here instead !

I had thought a few times about putting some flowers in the garden. But I have no idea what kind. I thought about Marigolds because they are said to be good for tomatoes but they draw spider mites and I have huge trouble with them all but killing my rose bushes every year.

I am open to suggestions and thanks for your input !

[livinonfaith]

Definitely wishing you luck!

It sounds like you have been working around the clock.

Hey, every year it seems like I have some new challenge that prevents me from really doing well with my garden. On the other hand, every year I learn something new. This forum has probably taught me dozens of new things in the last few months.

I can't say how either of us will do this year, but next year we'll be a little better and the next year more so. Eventually, we're going to get this right, darn it!

(but, personally, I'm hoping it's this year!)

[RebelRidin]

Hi JohnWayne -

There was thread recently about folks favorite bee flowers... http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22370

While the organic matter will do wonders for your soil (once that manure has been rotted/composted that is) I am not sure that goes far in explaining/addressing issues that your instincts told you were stemming from a lack of bees. If you looked at your garden in your mind and you said was "Now if I just had some bees"... I am assuming you were seeing decent growth and plenty of blossoms?

While a lack of bees isn't the only explanation for poor fruit set that hive your friend is putting in will be terrific for your garden for sure and allow you to answer that question.