CRF for Mittleider Method? or 'Immed' release? (I quietly ask...)

[LBlala]

Hi all, been exploring all the millions of fertilizing methods out there..Yes I've got more time on my hands than is healthy.. So I bought a bunch of stuff including the Mittleider Magic Micro Mix, & am not sure if I've got the right fertilizer to go w/ it. I picked up this stuff called 'Dynamite' 13-13-13 but I see it's a controlled release fertilizer, little granules..

In the method you're supposed to mix the micros w/ fertilizer & epsom salt & dose each plant/pot every week. It seemed silly to apply a CRF weekly, but again I'm new to most things fertilizing...Btw it's not organic at all, but was the only one I could find online w/ the 'right' npk numbers (now I see a few other numbers are ok too..) I know some ppl aren't all for it, I'm just playing w/ a few different methods, figured why not. But if I'm going to try it I'd like to do it right.

Thanks for any input...

[kurt]

In ground or container?Tomatoes or vegtables?What are you growing?Raised bed?From seed or store bought? age?

[LBlala]

Ah, right. Tomatoes, transplanting to 6+ gallon pots of pro-mix. The last couple plants still homeless not planted. I'd mail ordered them as plants, so age unknown.... i guess I'll just say "too old for their little pots" they've had to live in. I just, thought I'd experiment (totally unscientifically/no control different varieties different pots mediums etc).

[duderubble]

I'm a simpleton, but for anything in pots I have always used the controlled release stuff that looks like little bb's, not too much (about half the reccomended rate) unless you have something formulated for tomatoes, then use package directions. In addition to that every other week for three applications I use Peters or Miracle Grow at 1 tablesppon per gallon in place of the regular watering starting with the first watering (so that means they get their last dose of liquid fertilizer one month after planting. Then I don't fertilize any more and let the time release stuff do its thing. Over fertilizing gives you lovely plants with no (or few) tomatoes.

In the ground I use a top dressing of composted manure (in bags) about one inch, and the liquid fertilizer as described above. No time release fertilizer.

This has worked for me, but you have as many methods as you have tomato freaks.

[Skaggydog]

'Dynamite' 13-13-13 With a name like that...

[panhandler]

Dynamite 13-13-13 is essentially Florikan Nutricote. It's an excellent fertilizer. I use it in my container tomatoes. It will break down faster in containers due to the temperature and leach off due to the need to water more. It wouldn't hurt to periodically add a bit more. I only used it at tranpsplant and it's probably pretty spent at this point. I lightly fertilized with calcium nitrate in vegetative phase and now in the flower/fruit phase I've cut out the nitrogen, opting for Diamond KMS and Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed solubles.

You could use a good synthetic liquid fert like DynaGrow or TigerBloom effectively as well.

[LBlala]

Thanks panhandler & dude... The difficulty is this 'Mittleider Method' is a very specific recipe, I'm trying to get just what they ask for... I've looked through the websites, blogs, threads on there & other forums & can't find mention of a specific brand of fertilizer that's supposed to be used. I thought this dynamite stuff looked like MG, which I'd pref not to use, but it's the only 13:13:13 thing I found.. (now I see other #s work too but having difficulty finding those too). Perhaps I'll PM Amideutch or CarolynPhillips, I believe they've worked w/ it.. (for background here's a thread somewhat related to my question. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=18705)

The closest info I've found is on a blog (http://mittleidermethodhomegardening.blogspot.com/) where most of the way down the page it says "Sometimes fertilizer companies will coat their products with a slow-dissolving cover, in order to be able to say their product is "slow-release", posedly somehow better. Don't buy that for vegetables!" ...........From that, I gather dynamite slow release won't work. More returns!

[Wi-sunflower]

While the new Mittleider books or the group makes it sound like everything has to be "just so", the original books and Mittleider himself was all about "food for everyone". That meant 3rd world countries where you used whatever you could find and adapted from that. The new group is about selling you "his" formula.

Don't worry so much about the numbers.

There is something tho that you DO need to be careful about when formulating your mix. This advice applies to any formula that includes Epsom Salts. Because Epsom Salts are part of the mix you ABSOLUTELY have to add that to your water FIRST. If there is any CALCIUM as in CaNo3 in the water first, the Magnesium in the Epsom Salts will precipitate out. If you have every had gunk in the bottom of your mix, that's why. It's a chemical reaction that many books that use Epsom Salts don't warn people about.

Carol

[LBlala]

Hm! That makes a of of sense, i suppose that happens w/ a lo, of ideas that go big.
& Thanks for the CA salt tip!! It's exactly the kind if thing I would neglect to do! And acourse now that leads me to another naive question: wait you do the weekly feedings by diluted solution as opposed to mixing in dry & watering?

[kurt]

Did the google search and it seems this "method" is more for raised beds.Jamming all the nutrients in a container all at once then watering (I have found in the past)will overwhelm the "contained"given area of growing medium in a pot.In a raised bed type situation you have some" breathing"room.When handling the granulars I have experienced some slight burning on hands,imagine what it might do to some fragile roots.The pro mix has the mycos in it already.Best bet if I was in this situation is to get the mix where you like it (wheel barrow,on plastic on ground whatever,let breath,turn,etc.)do a two stage pot up and let the roots develope before you introduce them to such a strong solution

[LBlala]

(Not disagreeing, only trying to make sure I understand your point..) Not sure what you mean kurt, do you mean use a dissolved in watering can solution instead of dry mixed in? Or don't even add weekly feedings? For a typical potting mix you'd make a simple grow medium, add your fertilizer/amendments, mix it up, wet it, mix it up more, & plant- be it container or bed, just in different amounts. This sounds like what the MM states to do.. what they call a 'pre-plant' & a 'weekly feed' (or, regularly scheduled feedings). This link says how to use the MM for small containers http://www.foodforeveryone.org/faq/i...d=309&relid=78 Far as I can see they claim for both in ground & containers they claim say one should use a 'pre-plant' mix of lime, epsom salts, borax into the planting medium, mix, wet, mix, then plant (so, just like adding tomato-tone, lime, etc, no?). Then weekly you use a 'weekly feed' of fertilizer (13:13:13 etc), 'magic micro nutrients', & epsom salt (much like a weekly feeding of tom-tone/kelp/ neptunes harvest/etc?).. Not sure how that would hurt.. Or are you talking about that slow release dynamite stuff that the instructions say 'add once a season' (because then I could catch your meaning...)?

When you say let the roots develop before introducing them... They've been grown from seed in one medium, transferred to a bit bigger pot in another medium, & bc they've been nutrient deprived & outgrown their pots I gave them a smidge of MG stuff dissolved in water to drink from the roots up (got back color & all so hoping buying MG was justified this one time). So, they've been 'two stage potted up' right? & their roots ought to be good to go? They're def over a foot tall. Thanks.

[kurt]

Sorry I did not read whole "system"notes.Yes I meant the granulars.Just from observation in my growing methods that too many nutrients are not really needed and sometimes will hinder and or hurt plants in containers.Sounds too advanced for me and costly.Your reply has more info and questions that I could not answer.Now you got me confused.

[lakelady]

I'm not sure about that method, but I learned the hard way that over fertilizing container plants yields less fruits. Sure my plants looked great, but I didn't get much in the way of tomatoes as I could have. Be careful with over doing it as it is so easy to get carried away (this statement is coming from the person who has tons of different products that I spent a small fortune on and am not using now). I fertilized my plants early on and now have stopped and they are suddenly producing lots and lots of flowers without fertilizer. Somehow whenever I see things looking great, I'm so tempted to give them "more" lol...and then they stop doing great.

I think you can probably use any fertilizer you want with those micronutrients to be honest. A friend of mine is using them with the Tomatotone organic and his plants look great. Isn't 13 a high number for nitrogen in fertilizer used for tomatoes? Not that I am an expert by any means just thinking out loud here.

[dice]

s"Granular" is not the same as your Dynamite (or Nutricote, or
Osmocote, or several other brands that are polymer-coated
for controlled release). Granular is not necessarily slow release.
That is simply how it is physically manufactured, for ease of
application and measuring, in little granules. These can be fast
release fertilizers. Farmers often mix up granular fertilizers
in water and use fertilizer injectors to apply them as part of
their irrigation regimen. The fertilizer dissolves completely
when mixed with water. Hence Kurt's concern with using too
much granular fertilizer at one time and burning plants in
containers.

Granular 13-13-13 is generic at farm stores. They generally have
no-name brands of it available that are supplied by some large,
bulk fertilizer producer. (This is what Worth commonly uses for
plants in the ground, from past posts.)

Polymer-coated fertilizers are in little granules, too, but they
actually are controlled-release fertilizers, by design. At a
given temperature and moisture level in the soil, they will
release some particular percentage of their fertilizer content
per fixed time period. One would have to severely overfertilize
with this kind of fertilizer to burn plants.

There are other kinds of slow-release fertilizer: organics that
break down fairly slowly in media naturally, like bone meal;
sulfur-coated urea; and synthetic fertilizer technologies in
general that pre-date polymer coating. Polymer-coated synthetic
fertilizer, like Dynamite 13-13-13, is perhaps more predictable
under controlled temperature and moisture conditions, which
makes it popular for commercial greenhouse use.

The Mittleider Method was designed before polymer-coated
fertilizers were widely available. It was designed with uncoated
granular fertilizers in mind. A polymer-coated fertilizer like
Dynamite 13-13-13 will not release at the same rate as an
uncoated granular 13-13-13, so you would not want to use it
weekly.

Epsom salt is water soluble, like an uncoated granular fertilizer.
One supplier suggested that it should only be side-dressed in
the field or on top of the media in containers, so that it does
not leach down below the root zone before the plants can use
it. (That would not apply to self-watering containers, where there
is nowhere for it to leach to, so mixing it into the container mix
works.)

[tnpeppers]

I have made up a batch of the Mittleider mix consisting of 25 lbs. of GteenView 12-12-12 fertilizer, 4 lbs. of Epsom salts, and a 10-ounce pack of the 'micro-nutrient' mix. My plants are already looking good (so good that my normally apathetic neighbors are commenting on their appearance), so I am somewhat concerned that I could be overfeeding them by scattering a tsp of this mix on top of the soil.. (They got a dose of Algoflash a few weeks back to get them going.)