BER - at what stage of tomato development

tam91 · July 5, 2012

As I mentioned before, the Early Girl plant at my in-ground garden has a ton of BER. No other varieties are affected, but they're all behind in development, except the sweet 100 cherry. What I was wondering was...

Why this one plant? All the conditions are the same.

Is it because the fruit are further along in development? At what point is a fruit "doomed"? Is it if the stress occurs as it's starting to blush, or do they all get BER at a particular time of stress no matter how far along they are? It does seem even some quite green ones have it, but only on that plant.

Well it's supposed to be 102 today, was 101 yesterday - I suppose that does qualify as stress!

Could it be because the Early Girl was grown to several feet high in probably a 10" nursery pot, and thus doesn't have as good of a root system as my plants, who were planted out at a normal size?

Tonio · July 6, 2012

Subjective controversy on BER, but my understanding is...

Aside from the prone plums/ elongated toms...

over-fertilization at young stage- still trying to get grips with it-binds CA uptake. (too much K?)

drought stress at young stage- goes limp from lack of moisture instills a bind of CA uptake. (kinda like a nick in your shoulder...as it were)

Appears they both can contribute to the lack of calcium uptake prior to blooming

Oddly, my 2nd year sandy sand soil ( in ground/ not raised) does not have have BER issues. I believe the best prevention is a scheduled consistent watering for proper moisture level(with weather in mind), commensurate with media grown in.

I used to have BER toms, and perfect peppers now its reversed- I over water me peps...

Compost is truly a moisture retention aid.

Tonio · July 6, 2012

Here's Carolyn's explanation.. Hope I regurgitated it fine- after the fact

http://www.vintageveggies.com/inform...rolyn_ber.html

Cole_Robbie · July 6, 2012

Do you have any romas or paste tomatoes that have no ber? That is the only tomato on which I get it, and those get it badly. This is the second year that my paste tomatoes have been a near total failure. I am thinking it is due to my heavy clay soil, and next year I will try to put manure at least under the plant itself.

eatmoreyeah · July 6, 2012

Out of the 70+ tomatoes I planted this year my Early Girls have had some BER. This year I did about a dozen maters in containers including the Early Girls. I'd say about 30% of the total production of the two Early Girls had BER. Mainly showing signs a few days before they would start to blush. I added a tablespoon of Calcium Nitrate and that seems to have done the trick.

tam91 · July 6, 2012

I had read Carolyn's article, thank you. Perhaps I'm being dense - I'm trying to figure out if the stress that caused this was earlier (while the plant was growing), or now (as they're trying to ripen) and if smaller ones not showing it now are likely to have it (if the stress goes away).

The only reason I am fussing is, it is the ONE tomato that's owned by the landowner, and he's asking about it. I don't have any pastes. Sounds like perhaps Early Girl is a variety just prone to it.

I won't add anything, as I understand additions don't do any good. Try to make sure I water as much as I can, given this ridiculous weather. Even though I water, I'm sure 100 degrees and no rain in ages is going to be a lot of stress regardless.

augiedog55 · July 6, 2012

Talking of early girls my buddy had to pull half his tomatoes off his early girl with ber. No other plants in his tomato batch have been effected by ber.. I'm seeing a pattern developing here

Tonio · July 6, 2012

Seems early girls are prone? I've seen numerous reports of them getting BER.

Tracy, I think its the stage before they even get flowers-when they are getting comfy on plant out for vegetative /root growth mode, but who knows maybe they even get started while still under lights

Tonio · July 6, 2012

Here's a few San Marzano Redorta I picked yesterday w/ JP Black Treifele

Roma's last year did OK- at least no BER.

rsg2001 · July 6, 2012

Paste tomatoes are definitely more prone to it. In my garden, I have a gi-normous Dr. Wyche's Yellow in an Earthbox that right now has approx. 35 tomatoes in various growth stages. In addition to that are the approx. 7-8 that I have pulled off with blossom end rot, which ranged in size from very small to medium sized. I believe it was caused by heat stress; it's been tough keeping up with the persistent high temperatures. I went away for a few days and came back and found that the new growth was wilting. I moved the plant into an area where it gets more shade, and have been replenishing its water reservoir more often, and that seems to be helping (knock on wood). Had the same problem with Orange Minsk - several had to be plucked off with BER. A couple of other plants including a Cherokee Purple and a dwarf from the Dwarf Project (Boronia F6) had one BER each.

tam91 · July 6, 2012

Well the guy bought this thing quite large in a small pot. Perhaps it's root system isn't as good as my plants then, who knows. Fingers crossed then for not much more BER.

**carolyn137** · July 6, 2012

ID forgtten that Mike at Victory Seeds asked me to write that article and I see it says that I'd grown over 1000 varieties, that was then, and now it's way over 3,000 varieties.

But the article doesn't address the question that Tam is asking.

Tam, my rows of tomatoes were 250 ft long and I used to walk them on a regular basis tor ecord all the things I do record, and I would always remove any BER afffected fruits, but never paid that much attention to which varieties had them, except for the paste varieties.

The size of those BER fruits would range from maybe quarter size greenies up to much larger greenies, up to partially and fully ripe fruits of many sizes.

Since one can't ID BER until one sees it at the blossom end one can only refer to fruits that have it, although that leaves out those fruits that have internal BER.

So my take on this is that there is no consistency to WHEN the many variables that can induce BER come into play so I suggest that someone here invent a Tomato- Stress-O-Meter that can measure variables such as too hot , too cold, too dry, too wet, too much N, plant growth too fast and then make a small incision in a fruit, put the probe in the fruit and let a pre-programmed computer spit out the answer.

Edited to add that again I forgot to emphasize that not all varieties have the same physiology as to nutrient and water transport so it's not surprising that some non-pastes do have a greater chance of developing BER while others don't.

tam91 · July 6, 2012

Well when you invent that stress-o-meter, please send me one

lakelady · July 9, 2012

Tracy, I am only this week seeing some BER in my garden too and they are not pastes, nor the variety you mentioned. I was disappointed to see 2 BER fruits on my Stump O the World plant, and one odd one on my Sicilian Russo Togetta. Now I'm on high alert so I can pull them off quickly and let the plant resume ripening the rest of the good fruits. Oh, and Goldman's had one too.

TightenUp · July 10, 2012

i had a lot of BER in my SWC on cher purple. i came home after a little vacation and the timer had run out of batteries and everything looked bone dry. the plants were wilting just a tiny bit. this was also during heat of up to 100 degrees. i dont know if it was the high heat or low moisture but prob a combo of both.

to fix the problem i got new batteries for the timer, i added cal-mag into the fill tube, added azomite and ferts to the growing media and top watered in. just to be clear i did not go full strength on any of those additives. IMO a little goes a long way.

its only been a few days but only 1 more tomato has shown BER and im guessing that process had started before i did my thing to the container.

July 5, 2012	#1
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	BER - at what stage of tomato development As I mentioned before, the Early Girl plant at my in-ground garden has a ton of BER. No other varieties are affected, but they're all behind in development, except the sweet 100 cherry. What I was wondering was... Why this one plant? All the conditions are the same. Is it because the fruit are further along in development? At what point is a fruit "doomed"? Is it if the stress occurs as it's starting to blush, or do they all get BER at a particular time of stress no matter how far along they are? It does seem even some quite green ones have it, but only on that plant. Well it's supposed to be 102 today, was 101 yesterday - I suppose that does qualify as stress! Could it be because the Early Girl was grown to several feet high in probably a 10" nursery pot, and thus doesn't have as good of a root system as my plants, who were planted out at a normal size? __________________ Tracy

July 6, 2012	#6
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	I had read Carolyn's article, thank you. Perhaps I'm being dense - I'm trying to figure out if the stress that caused this was earlier (while the plant was growing), or now (as they're trying to ripen) and if smaller ones not showing it now are likely to have it (if the stress goes away). The only reason I am fussing is, it is the ONE tomato that's owned by the landowner, and he's asking about it. I don't have any pastes. Sounds like perhaps Early Girl is a variety just prone to it. I won't add anything, as I understand additions don't do any good. Try to make sure I water as much as I can, given this ridiculous weather. Even though I water, I'm sure 100 degrees and no rain in ages is going to be a lot of stress regardless. __________________ Tracy

July 6, 2012	#11
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Well the guy bought this thing quite large in a small pot. Perhaps it's root system isn't as good as my plants then, who knows. Fingers crossed then for not much more BER. __________________ Tracy

July 6, 2012	#12
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	ID forgtten that Mike at Victory Seeds asked me to write that article and I see it says that I'd grown over 1000 varieties, that was then, and now it's way over 3,000 varieties. But the article doesn't address the question that Tam is asking. Tam, my rows of tomatoes were 250 ft long and I used to walk them on a regular basis tor ecord all the things I do record, and I would always remove any BER afffected fruits, but never paid that much attention to which varieties had them, except for the paste varieties. The size of those BER fruits would range from maybe quarter size greenies up to much larger greenies, up to partially and fully ripe fruits of many sizes. Since one can't ID BER until one sees it at the blossom end one can only refer to fruits that have it, although that leaves out those fruits that have internal BER. So my take on this is that there is no consistency to WHEN the many variables that can induce BER come into play so I suggest that someone here invent a Tomato- Stress-O-Meter that can measure variables such as too hot , too cold, too dry, too wet, too much N, plant growth too fast and then make a small incision in a fruit, put the probe in the fruit and let a pre-programmed computer spit out the answer. Edited to add that again I forgot to emphasize that not all varieties have the same physiology as to nutrient and water transport so it's not surprising that some non-pastes do have a greater chance of developing BER while others don't. __________________ Carolyn

July 6, 2012	#13
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Well when you invent that stress-o-meter, please send me one __________________ Tracy

July 6, 2012	#2
Tonio Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 148	Subjective controversy on BER, but my understanding is... Aside from the prone plums/ elongated toms... over-fertilization at young stage- still trying to get grips with it-binds CA uptake. (too much K?) drought stress at young stage- goes limp from lack of moisture instills a bind of CA uptake. (kinda like a nick in your shoulder...as it were) Appears they both can contribute to the lack of calcium uptake prior to blooming Oddly, my 2nd year sandy sand soil ( in ground/ not raised) does not have have BER issues. I believe the best prevention is a scheduled consistent watering for proper moisture level(with weather in mind), commensurate with media grown in. I used to have BER toms, and perfect peppers now its reversed- I over water me peps... Compost is truly a moisture retention aid.

July 6, 2012	#4
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Do you have any romas or paste tomatoes that have no ber? That is the only tomato on which I get it, and those get it badly. This is the second year that my paste tomatoes have been a near total failure. I am thinking it is due to my heavy clay soil, and next year I will try to put manure at least under the plant itself.

July 6, 2012	#5
eatmoreyeah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 41	Out of the 70+ tomatoes I planted this year my Early Girls have had some BER. This year I did about a dozen maters in containers including the Early Girls. I'd say about 30% of the total production of the two Early Girls had BER. Mainly showing signs a few days before they would start to blush. I added a tablespoon of Calcium Nitrate and that seems to have done the trick.

July 6, 2012	#7
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	Talking of early girls my buddy had to pull half his tomatoes off his early girl with ber. No other plants in his tomato batch have been effected by ber.. I'm seeing a pattern developing here

July 6, 2012	#10
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	Paste tomatoes are definitely more prone to it. In my garden, I have a gi-normous Dr. Wyche's Yellow in an Earthbox that right now has approx. 35 tomatoes in various growth stages. In addition to that are the approx. 7-8 that I have pulled off with blossom end rot, which ranged in size from very small to medium sized. I believe it was caused by heat stress; it's been tough keeping up with the persistent high temperatures. I went away for a few days and came back and found that the new growth was wilting. I moved the plant into an area where it gets more shade, and have been replenishing its water reservoir more often, and that seems to be helping (knock on wood). Had the same problem with Orange Minsk - several had to be plucked off with BER. A couple of other plants including a Cherokee Purple and a dwarf from the Dwarf Project (Boronia F6) had one BER each.

July 9, 2012	#14
lakelady Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: northern NJ zone 6b Posts: 1,862	Tracy, I am only this week seeing some BER in my garden too and they are not pastes, nor the variety you mentioned. I was disappointed to see 2 BER fruits on my Stump O the World plant, and one odd one on my Sicilian Russo Togetta. Now I'm on high alert so I can pull them off quickly and let the plant resume ripening the rest of the good fruits. Oh, and Goldman's had one too. __________________ Antoniette

July 10, 2012	#15
TightenUp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Jersey Posts: 1,183	i had a lot of BER in my SWC on cher purple. i came home after a little vacation and the timer had run out of batteries and everything looked bone dry. the plants were wilting just a tiny bit. this was also during heat of up to 100 degrees. i dont know if it was the high heat or low moisture but prob a combo of both. to fix the problem i got new batteries for the timer, i added cal-mag into the fill tube, added azomite and ferts to the growing media and top watered in. just to be clear i did not go full strength on any of those additives. IMO a little goes a long way. its only been a few days but only 1 more tomato has shown BER and im guessing that process had started before i did my thing to the container.