Amazon Chocolate or Cherokee Chocolate?

Making decisions for 2013 garden. Which do you prefer and why? Are they different enough to warrant planting both?

Ted

[kath]

I prefer Amazon Chocolate. Only grew CC once, last year, but I also grew AC. CC was taller, had bigger fruits ( a couple over 1lb.), had more bite, many more catfaced fruits and didn't keep well on the counter. Amazon Chocolate had more sweetness but with an intense flavor, was much more productive, had prettier fruits and no mealiness. Definitely different and if I were you, I'd plant both.jmo

kath

P.S. My AC is the PL version. I grew the tall, RL version with small fruits that split worse than Sungold and it was a bust.

[Heritage]

Ted,

There are 3 variations of Amazon Chocolate seed being distributed (that I know of) and there may be more. That means you have to try 4 varieties.

Steve

Originally Posted by Heritage

Ted,

There are 3 variations of Amazon Chocolate seed being distributed (that I know of) and there may be more. That means you have to try 4 varieties.

Steve

I wasn't aware of so many varieties of AC. My seed is from one of the members of this forum and is the PL cultivar. I hope it is the one Camo bragged about last year or the year before.

Ted

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by tedln

I wasn't aware of so many varieties of AC. My seed is from one of the members of this forum and is the PL cultivar. I hope it is the one Camo bragged about last year or the year before.

Ted

I think there is a good chance it is the same as Camo's - he's growing a large-fruited PL, if I remember correctly. There's also a small-fruited RL with less flavor and a large-fruited RL with excellent flavor.

But, back to your original question - I think there is enough difference between CP and AC to grow them both.

Steve

[kath]

Originally Posted by Heritage

I think there is a good chance it is the same as Camo's - he's growing a large-fruited PL, if I remember correctly. There's also a small-fruited RL with less flavor and a large-fruited RL with excellent flavor.

Steve

Yes, Camo's AC is a large-fruited PL as is mine. Do you know a source of the large-fruited RL, Steve? Tania doesn't list this one on her website and I don't recall hearing about it before.

kath

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by kath

Yes, Camo's AC is a large-fruited PL as is mine. Do you know a source of the large-fruited RL, Steve? Tania doesn't list this one on her website and I don't recall hearing about it before.

kath

But Tania does say it's genetically unstable.

The only thing I see as being common to the two varieties you mention is the word chocolate, and Cherokee Chocolate is the same as Cherokee Purple but has a yellow epidermis as opposed to the clear epidermis that Cherokee Purple has. So the only difference is that CC has a darker color than does CP and all else is the same.

The word chocolate has become more popular with folks who name varieties so we've got Chocolate Stripes, Chocolate Cherry, Chocolate, Chocolate Wonder, etc. I LOVE Chocolate, but the dark chocolate eating kind.

I forced myself to go to Amishland last night and almost cried, once again, when I read through the varieties and all the wrong information that Lisa gives about so many varieties which you can also read about in the thread about Amishland in the seed and plant Forum, but I saw some new deliberate errors as well this time. Each time I think I'm going to sit down and e-mail her about it but then I say, why bother, b'c I know she doesn't care.

So many varieties said to be rare, exclusive, only found at her site, and not true at all for most of them. I cringe at what she wrote about two varieties that I introduced, seeds from Doug in MN who posts here, and those are Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf. But Lisa is not going to give my name for ANY of the varieties that she lists that were introduced by me b'c in the past I've tried so hard to help her with background info and she has totally ignored me, b'c for her it's all about making something look rare, exclusive and selling seeds.

I read through her blurb about Amazon Chocolate and cringed again. She talked about translation but never even gave the Russian name, using english letters so that others who knew Russian could translate it. Amazon? You tell me.

I also read the comments she made about Andrey ( Belarus) that he sent to her, which were positive, but that's before he knew what she was about and Andrey has said that he deeply regreted sending her any seeds, but at the time he was new to US seed sites, and well, I described that whole scene in the Amishland thread in the Seed source Forum.

I know I should judge a variety on its own merits but I simply cannot bring myself to support her in any way b'c I judge a site not just on varieties offered, service, seed quality, etc., but also on honesty and a moral code that I expect of anyone, and especially someone who has a commercial seed site taking money from the public. It would be nice if I could apologize for my viewpoint, but I can't. I was raised in a home where telling the truth was part of the moral code we lived by, and yes, there were a few times I strayed from that and was admonished, somewhat lightly I might add, but the point was well taken.

[camochef]

Ted,
I've been growing Amazon Chocolate since the 2007 season and I did get my original seed from Lisa at Amishland. Over the years I've really appreciated the taste of Amazon Chocolate but have found it to be unstable as far as leaf type.
Many years they are about 50/50, potato leaf to regular leaf. All but one year they've produced quite large "black" tomatoes. That one year, was more than likely weather related problems as none got to be that Amazon size.
It still remains in the top three of my favorite "black" tomatoes competing against Dana's Dusky Rose and Bear Creek for best tasting, but neither compare in size.
While on the subject of DDR...my grafted DDR is full of large green tomatoes. All much larger than my DDR from seed. Also much larger than any DDR I've grown the past few years.
Cherokee Chocolate is the "same" tomato as Cherokee Purple with a different colored skin. I did find it to have a somewhat better taste than Cherokee Purple and a better shelf life...but I don't grow either of them anymore. I find Amazon Chocolate, DDR, and Bear Creek to more than fulfill my dark tomato needs. If I was to pick another, it would probably be Blackmaster. At least here on my place.
If you decide to order Amazon Chocolate, you may want to consider ordering Brandywine-Glicks also. That's another Amishland tomato that has done extremely well here for me.
Good Luck with your choices.
Enjoy!
Camo

[amideutch]

Camo, what did you use for root stock on your DDR graft? Ami

[camochef]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Camo, what did you use for root stock on your DDR graft? Ami

Ami,
The little plant was given to me by Dana in a 4x4 pot and according to her it was rootstock from Tommy's seeds, which was where the little plastic clips that held them together also came from.
The plant was awful dry, so the first thing I did was water it, then placed it under flourescent light. It was misaligned so I didn't have a lot of hope for the little guy. The next morning the clip had popped off, so I went and planted it and my little Kumato together in the garden. My last two tomato plants.
I was amazed to watch it not only catch up to, but surpass all the later planted tomatoes. It soon had lots of green tomatoes that just kept growing larger and larger. My DDR's over the past few years have been medium-sized tomatoes. These have already passed them by, both in size and in the amounts hanging on the plant. I have DDR's from seed just 10 ft up the row that are nowhere near the size of these beauties.
Initially, I couldn't guess why anyone would want to graft tomatoes rather than start them from seed, but after watching the miraclous growth of this plant, and the size and amount of the tomatoes on it. I just might change my mind on grafting. I'm still waiting for something to ripen, just to compare its taste. While doing so, as patiently as possible, I'm having visions of multiple varieties on one plant. Wouldn't that be great!
Go out to the garden and pick a Cowlick Brandywinw, A purple Dog Creek and a Dana's Dusky Rose off one plant, maybe a Brandywine Glicks, a Liz Birt and a Tarasenko6 off another.
I used to do grafting and budding on fruit trees. Had seven different pears on one tree, and multiple fruit on others.
Enjoy!
Camo

I got my seed from Roper 2008 last year and she marked the little baggie with the seed as PL. I have no idea where she got her seed but suspect the seed she sent me is from her garden. I am looking forward to growing it. I got it to late too grow last year and didn't have room for it this year.

Ted

Carolyn,

I've seen a lot of exaggerations and possibly misrepresentations on a lot of web sites selling seed. Sometimes it is easy to recognize, sometimes it isn't. I don't really mind exaggerations and just consider it salesmanship and hope I'm intelligent enough to recognize it. If I don't recognize it, I will after the first growing season and will not do business with them again. I have a mental list of four or five companies that will never see another dollar from me. I've never bought from Amishland and probably won't in the future.

Ted

[parah]

Amazon Chocolate (potato Leaf) has become my #1 tomato plant.
I am in Thailand so growing conditions are a bit like Florida.

Hot humid weather, brutal tropical sun, year round disease and endless bugs.
I have trialed 50 varieties so far and Amazon Chocolate is the best
for tolerating horrible growing conditions and pumping out big
tasty tomatoes. For comparison Big Beef has never made 1 tomato after 4 attempts.

This year ALL my black tomato plants died before fruiting because of Grey Mold except...Amazon Chocolate, it is still going strong!

What a marvelous blend of disease resistance, heat tolerance, vigor, and taste.
THANK YOU Camochef for telling everyone about Amazon Chocolate.

[ScottinAtlanta]

If it can survive in Thailand, it might survive in Atlanta. What variety of AC did you grow?

[camochef]

Amazon Chocolate...no contest!

Cherokee Chocolate is simply Cherokee purple with a skin color mutation.

Want to try a really tasty black...Dana's Dusky Rose!
Enjoy!
Camo