timing of topping?

[habitat_gardener]

I recall reading that some people top their plants toward the end of the season so that the greenies will ripen before the cold hits. I was wondering about the timing. How many weeks before the end of the season do you do this? Or do you just pinch out new blossoms after a certain date, and leave the foliage? Has anyone tried topping (or pinching) some plants and not others, and is there a difference?

I usually try to keep my plants going until frost hits at the end of November, but it's not really worth it for the larger varieties. I don't get much production after mid-October except for some cherry tomatoes and smaller varieties. Mid-Sept seems early to top them -- some of the later ones don't even start producing until then.

[koshki]

Every year I tell myself I'm going to do this, and every year I chicken out. Of course, most years my plants were fairly diseased, so it probably wouldn't have made any difference. This year I have been able to keep them healthier, so I look forward to seeing some answers!

[edweather]

There was an earlier thread on this, and I think the rule of thumb was a month before frost. My Black Cherry is going great guns and I'm not touching it yet, but I've been trimming the tops (and some bottoms) of a couple of my plants trying to get a few larger tomatoes to maturity.

[ddsack]

To me, pinching off blossoms and baby fruit makes more sense than topping. Since often by the end of the summer, the plant has lost a lot of the bottom leaves to old age or disease, you'd think that you would want to keep healthy newer top leaves if you are thinking to improve the size of the fruit currently set. However, if you just want to ripen the fruits at their current size, then topping would be fine.

I've never been totally convinced that topping will channel the plant's energy into the fruit. My experience is that the plant immediately tries to send out twice as many new side suckers wherever the growing tips are broken or removed. Seems like the extra energy would be diverted into attempting to create new life elsewhere on the plant, not necessarily into the existing tomatoes.

I've never done side by side comparisons with a lot of plants, so I could be wrong.

[barkeater]

Up here in Vermont many of the locals have already pulled ALL the leaves off the tomato plants and all that are left are tomatoes and stems. First time I saw that I almost went off the road! They say it is to get the warmth of the sun to ripen the tomatoes before frost.

I would never do that but I do top my tomatoes the last week of August, about a month before recent first frosts have been. I mainly do it to the top of the cage so I can put the frost blankets over the row easily. I also started "bottoming" my tomatoes too last year like they do in the greenhouses, removing the lower branches which are where most of the leaf spots are. It should also improve air circulation and makes it easier to get complete spray coverage.

[edweather]

A few of my plants are looking a little naked too, but I'm definitely leaving some foliage with the tomatoes.

[carolyn137]

I have never topped a plant b'c I know there are two other ways of hastening ripening.

One is to take a flat bladed shovel and about a foot out from the main stem to cut a circle around the plants about 6 inches deep. That cuts the main feeder roots and hastens ripening.

The other way to do it is to pull up on the plants by twisting it at the same time which also severs the feeder roots.

Why not consider either of those as possible options to topping or removing fruits and/or foliage?

[edweather]

In the past when I grew them in the ground I have used the 'cut a circle' around the main stem method. I had forgotten about that. I never heard about the 'pull up on the plant' method. I grow in containers w/cages now, and its kind of hard to get a shovel in there, but I have used a knife in the past to cut a circle around the stem. I might try that yet. The two plants where I removed foliage, the foliage was so thick, there was hardly any sun getting into the interior and rear of the plant anyway. Even with the very old original foliage I removed, it still basically looks like a normal plant except for around the bottom, which could have used a little air anyway. I had very few folial issues this year and it was very thick. Almost all of the original foliage was on the plants, even making it hard to water the bottom. Just curious as to why you suggest not to remove any tiny fruits and new blossoms, even if they have no chance at making it to maturity? Thanks. Ed.

[carolyn137]

Just curious as to why you suggest not to remove any tiny fruits and new blossoms, even if they have no chance at making it to maturity? Thanks. Ed.

*********

When I used to do what I said above I was trying to ripen fruits that are usually large green ones close to maturity or smaller mature sized ones.

After severing the feeder roots I don't think any tiny fruits or new blossoms are going to go anywhere in terms of development due to lack of water and nutrients and yes, it can rain where I grew tomatoes.

Besides, to be honest I usually had many hundreds of plants out there and while most would have given me ripe fruits already, the ones I wanted to ripen up ASAP before it got too cold were not a small number.

And no way did I have the time to take off blossoms and tiny fruits since starting at the beginning of September I was back at my teaching job.

If you have the time there's no reason why you can't remove new blossoms and tiny fruits, but I never thought it was worthwhile.

And after many years of going out there and harvesting mature greenies and wrapping them in newspaper when frost was expected, I gave up on that too and just said something like..... for everything there is a season, and being out there with the cold wind coming from the North was NOT my idea of the season for tomatoes.

[Ken4230]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I have never topped a plant b'c I know there are two other ways of hastening ripening.

One is to take a flat bladed shovel and about a foot out from the main stem to cut a circle around the plants about 6 inches deep. That cuts the main feeder roots and hastens ripening.

The other way to do it is to pull up on the plants by twisting it at the same time which also severs the feeder roots.

carolyn,

I've never tried the twisting on tomatoes, but I do use it on cabbage to tighten up the head.
The root pruning works for tomatoes. We usually start 4-6 wks before the last frost, depending on how many tomatoes are still on each plant.
Last year we had nice tomatoes at Thanksgiving from a root pruned plant.

I have transplanted several 2 in. and under Dogwood and Redbud trees using a somewhat similar procedure.
It takes several months and some backbreaking work, but it's worth it.

Ken

[edweather]

Carolyn, OK, got it. Yeah, If I had a lot of plants I probably wouldn't have the time either, but with only a few I have the luxury of nurturing them a little more.

[rockyonekc]

I find pickled green tomatoes make a delicious condiment for ham and beans. I look forward to collecting the green fruit before a hard frost each year.

[koshki]

Pinching and for that matter topping is out of my reach (would require help from my DH) , but root pruning is not. Carolyn, could you please elaborate on what this does to ripen tomatoes?

[SharonRossy]

Hi Guys, I was just having this conversation with myself. Looking at some of my cherries, I decided to start snipping some of the tops, which I could barely reach and pinching some if the higher suckers. Im also removing some of the lower leaves. On my heirloom, gold medal, like you edweather the foliage is very lush and thick and I have started to remove some leaves. Carolyn my question, this plant is still got fruit going and you had mentioned in another thread not to top it off yet. Should I continue this way? As you know, the fruits are huge. Nothing ripe yet, but getting close.
Sharon

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by koshki

Pinching and for that matter topping is out of my reach (would require help from my DH) , but root pruning is not. Carolyn, could you please elaborate on what this does to ripen tomatoes?

I can try.

THe larger life cycle of a tomato is divided into the vegetative phase with roots stems and foliage and the sexual phase of blossom formation, fruit set and fruit maturation.

Energy to accomplish all of that comes from photosynthesis and the formation of the energy compounds ATP and GTP. And most of that energy is used for the vegetative phase up to the times that fruits get near maturity.

RIpening of fruits when the maximum size has been reached involves a cascade of enzyme reactions and yes, some energy is needed but I don't think much although I've never seen a detailed analysis of energy use for that.

If water and nutrients are available they mainly go to vegetative growth. If I'm trying to ripen almost all large greenies I want to shunt energy use from vegetative growth to ripening those greenies.

By severing the feeder roots at the surface it cuts off water and nutrient sources so lessens vegtative growth at the expense of the cascade of enzyme reactions that are responsible for ripening.

Do you buy that?