Some help please

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

Hello, I am amending my new tomato beds soil (if you can call it that...lol) which I am going to have a raised bed. I cannot find Dolomite Lime and I know Lime type-S is different but can it be used? If not then is Gypsum a good replacement. I am also composting the Hard Pan(soil) with eucalyptus chainsaw dust from a tree we had cut down last year, and i have mixed in 3 lawn mower bags of grass cuttings over the course of last summer. Is that a good idea?

Any help would be appreciated,
Richard

Fusion_power · November 16, 2012

Gypsum is a good alternative to dolomite. It is always best to have a soil test done before adding lime (alkaloid) materials so I would suggest doing a test first if you can. General rule of thumb type recommendations can put your soil out of balance in a hurry.

If you have access to hardwood wood ashes, they are much more effective than lime.

Almost any kind of organic matter is beneficial for gardening. This includes lawn clippings. The only caveat is that you have to be careful about getting weed seed into your garden. This is why it is best to compost such materials before using them in the garden. The heat from composting kills the weed seed.

DarJones

rwsacto · November 16, 2012

Hi, Welcome.

1. Dolomite lime is also called garden lime and will raise soil pH. It is available at HD and OSH and Green Acres. Look for a green bag, Espoma. Do NOT use regular lime or slaked lime.

2. Are you putting clay soil in your bed? Then gypsum will help break up clay and hardpan and lower the pH.

3. I would NOT put ANY eucalyptus in the bed.

There is a reason nothing grows under a eucalyptus tree! Better to use real compost or other organic amendments. Consider buying bulk soil for the beds-like from Hasties. If you have space, now is the time to collect and compost leaves with your grass clippings.

4. I suggest you get some advice from a local master gardner or nursery before you go further. Check out the Fair Oaks Horticulture center and the advice available online at UC Davis and Farmer Fred. You should get a soil sample analysis if you want it exactly right.

You have 4-5 months before planting tomatoes. Do it right the first time unless you love season long experiments.

Good Luck,
Rick

Redbaron · November 16, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by forni4fun

Hello, I am amending my new tomato beds soil (if you can call it that...lol) which I am going to have a raised bed. I cannot find Dolomite Lime and I know Lime type-S is different but can it be used? If not then is Gypsum a good replacement. I am also composting the Hard Pan(soil) with eucalyptus chainsaw dust from a tree we had cut down last year, and i have mixed in 3 lawn mower bags of grass cuttings over the course of last summer. Is that a good idea?

Any help would be appreciated,
Richard

Grass clippings? .... awesome.....

Sawdust? .... use in extreme moderation until it is really broken down good. General rule of thumb is that if it still looks like saw dust, use less than 10 % because sawdust really sucks out the nitrogen early, then turns around and releases it all at once. As a top mulch it is less finicky, but turned into the soil it can become a nightmare if you put on too much. A little is great, a lot can be a problem....

Eucalyptus? ... I read a while back someone had issues with eucalyptus, but it doesn't grow around here. So I honestly have no way of knowing how accurate it was.

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

OK ty for advice. As for soil test I am very very limited on money. My use of my Eucalyptus + Grass compost is a result of available funding. I will check out your recomendations at UC Davis, and try scraping up enough money for the Gypsym... Thanks again people, Richard

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

I wanted to test my soils drainage ability so I filled a 5 gal. bucket about half full and 20 min. later the pictures will show my results. As u can see my amending results thus far are horrible! Now a friend offered me some sand and perlite he has laying around. would either or both help me any? Richard

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

oh dang it have to hold on for pictures sorry

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

having problems adding pictures! sorry I am new at this...Richard

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

well i hope it worked!

habitat_gardener · November 16, 2012

If you have clay soil, adding sand will make it much harder to work with, unless you add a huge amount -- something like 50/50.

Perlite is good for containers, but I'm not sure I'd add it to garden soil.

If you have limited funds, you can try lasagna gardening, sheet mulching, etc. (google them for tons of info). Basically, you get any kind of organic materials and layer it in your garden. In my experience, it's best to lay the materials on top of the soil and let the worms do the mixing, rather than trying to mix them into soil.

-- Coffee grounds are free from Starbucks -- but make sure the layers are no more than a quarter inch thick, or it will create a hard layer that water can't penetrate. I collected many bags of it both when I got a new garden and for the compost bin. Worms love coffee grounds! It often comes in chunks, so I use a nursery flat (with the small holes) to break it up as I add it, or else just use my gloved hands.

-- Straw bales are often free after stores that have used them for thanksgiving displays want to get rid of them. Straw is a terrific top layer. A local permaculture program had a steep dry hillside to work with for a demo garden, and they used mostly coffee grounds and straw to make it into a lush productive garden space.

--Pumpkins are often free after halloween (if anyone still has some sitting around). Even better if they're smashed and starting to rot.

--Sometimes municipal compost is available cheap or free.

-- your neighbors' bags of leaves! If you can shred them with a mower or (in a barrel) a line cutter, even better.

I personally would not use euc sawdust on a garden bed. I would add it to a compost bin in thin layers.

I see that UC Extension has several info sheets on soil here
http://ucanr.edu/sites/sacmg/Soil/

rwsacto · November 16, 2012

Richard,

Also please check the Sacramento Craigslist under free and farm and garden. There are local farms giving away steer and horse manure. Steer manure will have less seeds. Look for composted manure if possible. See if you can borrow a trailer and get a 1/2 yard or so.

Mix with your leaves and turn into your beds.

Rick

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

Thanks rick i will explore those possibilites and appreciate all your tips, Richard

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

Rick,
You said coffee grounds no thicker than 1/4", just a top layer? if several layers then how much spacing between each layer please? Richard

forni4fun · November 16, 2012

Rick,
Thank you so very much. Went to craigslist free stuff and it turns out a person literally right around the corner from me gives their crap away free. This site and people really ROCK in my opinion, Richard

rwsacto · November 16, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by forni4fun

Rick,
You said coffee grounds no thicker than 1/4", just a top layer? if several layers then how much spacing between each layer please? Richard

Hi,

Actually HG said that. However, I think what he means is:

If you just add it to the top of the ground or in layers without mixing, then make the layers thin. The grounds crust together and form a waterproof layer. My opinion, a couple of inches between layers.

If you can till it in with the soil other stuff, don't worry about it.

If you can mix it in your compost, go for it (thats where mine goes).

Rick

November 16, 2012	#1
forni4fun Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 23	Some help please Hello, I am amending my new tomato beds soil (if you can call it that...lol) which I am going to have a raised bed. I cannot find Dolomite Lime and I know Lime type-S is different but can it be used? If not then is Gypsum a good replacement. I am also composting the Hard Pan(soil) with eucalyptus chainsaw dust from a tree we had cut down last year, and i have mixed in 3 lawn mower bags of grass cuttings over the course of last summer. Is that a good idea? Any help would be appreciated, Richard

November 16, 2012	#6
forni4fun Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 23	HELP I wanted to test my soils drainage ability so I filled a 5 gal. bucket about half full and 20 min. later the pictures will show my results. As u can see my amending results thus far are horrible! Now a friend offered me some sand and perlite he has laying around. would either or both help me any? Richard Last edited by forni4fun; November 16, 2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: adding pictures link

November 16, 2012	#2
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Gypsum is a good alternative to dolomite. It is always best to have a soil test done before adding lime (alkaloid) materials so I would suggest doing a test first if you can. General rule of thumb type recommendations can put your soil out of balance in a hurry. If you have access to hardwood wood ashes, they are much more effective than lime. Almost any kind of organic matter is beneficial for gardening. This includes lawn clippings. The only caveat is that you have to be careful about getting weed seed into your garden. This is why it is best to compost such materials before using them in the garden. The heat from composting kills the weed seed. DarJones

November 16, 2012	#3
rwsacto Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 288	Hi, Welcome. 1. Dolomite lime is also called garden lime and will raise soil pH. It is available at HD and OSH and Green Acres. Look for a green bag, Espoma. Do NOT use regular lime or slaked lime. 2. Are you putting clay soil in your bed? Then gypsum will help break up clay and hardpan and lower the pH. 3. I would NOT put ANY eucalyptus in the bed. There is a reason nothing grows under a eucalyptus tree! Better to use real compost or other organic amendments. Consider buying bulk soil for the beds-like from Hasties. If you have space, now is the time to collect and compost leaves with your grass clippings. 4. I suggest you get some advice from a local master gardner or nursery before you go further. Check out the Fair Oaks Horticulture center and the advice available online at UC Davis and Farmer Fred. You should get a soil sample analysis if you want it exactly right. You have 4-5 months before planting tomatoes. Do it right the first time unless you love season long experiments. Good Luck, Rick

November 16, 2012	#10
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	If you have clay soil, adding sand will make it much harder to work with, unless you add a huge amount -- something like 50/50. Perlite is good for containers, but I'm not sure I'd add it to garden soil. If you have limited funds, you can try lasagna gardening, sheet mulching, etc. (google them for tons of info). Basically, you get any kind of organic materials and layer it in your garden. In my experience, it's best to lay the materials on top of the soil and let the worms do the mixing, rather than trying to mix them into soil. -- Coffee grounds are free from Starbucks -- but make sure the layers are no more than a quarter inch thick, or it will create a hard layer that water can't penetrate. I collected many bags of it both when I got a new garden and for the compost bin. Worms love coffee grounds! It often comes in chunks, so I use a nursery flat (with the small holes) to break it up as I add it, or else just use my gloved hands. -- Straw bales are often free after stores that have used them for thanksgiving displays want to get rid of them. Straw is a terrific top layer. A local permaculture program had a steep dry hillside to work with for a demo garden, and they used mostly coffee grounds and straw to make it into a lush productive garden space. --Pumpkins are often free after halloween (if anyone still has some sitting around). Even better if they're smashed and starting to rot. --Sometimes municipal compost is available cheap or free. -- your neighbors' bags of leaves! If you can shred them with a mower or (in a barrel) a line cutter, even better. I personally would not use euc sawdust on a garden bed. I would add it to a compost bin in thin layers. I see that UC Extension has several info sheets on soil here http://ucanr.edu/sites/sacmg/Soil/