Orange Minsk vs. Orange Minsk Heart

[MikeInCypress]

I have grown Orange Minsk since Carolyn first offered it here in 2009 or 2010. It is probably my favorite "have to grow tomato". Now I have been reading up on the Orange Minsk Heart and back in 2010 Bigdaddy said he got both Heart Shaped and Beefsteak shaped tomatoes on the same plant. Are the Orange Minsk Hearts being offered in Carolyn's current offer similar or are they a further grow out that is predominately Heart or Bomb Shaped Tomatoes?

MikeInCypress

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by MikeInCypress

I have grown Orange Minsk since Carolyn first offered it here in 2009 or 2010. It is probably my favorite "have to grow tomato". Now I have been reading up on the Orange Minsk Heart and back in 2010 Bigdaddy said he got both Heart Shaped and Beefsteak shaped tomatoes on the same plant. Are the Orange Minsk Hearts being offered in Carolyn's current offer similar or are they a further grow out that is predominately Heart or Bomb Shaped Tomatoes?

MikeInCypress

Mike, guess what, I'm Carolyn and you knew I'd answer.

It was bigdaddy who sent me the seeds. As I recall he saved seed from two different heart shaped fruits and they were in separate packs.

When grown out in 2011 there wasn't enough seed to list or share, but it was regrown by Shoe, who is one of the persons who helps me with seed production, and it was what I call a blunt heart, same shape as Wes.

Grown this past summer again by Shoe, it was the same blunt heart, not a beefsteak, not a globe, not a plum, but a blunt heart. Will it be stable? I think so based on the other heart variations of an original non-heart, one described below, but how can I make any promises? I'm sure many will be requesting it from my current seed offer and we'll see when I put up the late summer /fall variety performance thread, as I always do.

To me it's interesting for the following reason. Indian Stripe and Cherokee Purple are, say I, closely related. Both have true PL variants, actually CP has 3, and IS now has a heart version, and a new Cherokee Purple Heart is being sold at Victory Seeds.The picture shows a blunt heart as well, not the hearty heart form of Kosvo or German Red Strawberry, to name a couple of hearty hearts.

Carolyn

[Andrey_BY]

As I told Carolyn before the original fruit of Orange Minsk was blunt heart and about 2 lb. I've bought this fruit on the main farmer's market in Minsk nameless and call it Orange Minsk. There are both shapes on its plant usually - oblate (beefsteak) and blunt heart. So there is only one tomato variety called Orange Minsk

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Andrey_BY

As I told Carolyn before the original fruit of Orange Minsk was blunt heart and about 2 lb. I've bought this fruit on the main farmer's market in Minsk nameless and call it Orange Minsk. There are both shapes on its plant usually - oblate (beefsteak) and blunt heart. So there is only one tomato variety called Orange Minsk

Andrey, I don't ever remember you telling me is was a blunt heart, so here's some pictures, b'c others haven't called it a blunt heart either.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Orange_Minsk

Tania got seeds from you and calls it a beefsteak and notes that you sent seeds to many at Tomatoville,and I was one of them and happened to be the first one to list it in the SSE Yearbook.

http://www.google.com/search?num=10&....1.utCMdF8IfqY

Above is a general Google IMAGES link and most shown are beefsteaks, and it's the same with the descriptions for OM in the 2012 SSE YEarbook, where a couple of folks have said irregular fruits as well, but most say beefsteaks.

For anyone looking at the above link be sure to click on the picture for an ID b'c there are some other varieties shown, such as Orange Russian #117

In the Google IMAGE one I can see a couple of pitures of blunt heart ones, but that can happen with other varieties as well, primarily due to environmental conditions. Saved seeds don't necessarily give any hearts the next year.

I don't think big daddy would have sent me those seeds if he didn't think the blunt heart ones he got, on the same plant he also got beefteak ones, if he didn'think it was something different.

So some changes in fruit forms can and do occur and most are due to the environment in the year that they're grown, but what seems important to me is that for 3 years now the OM heart has retained the heart form grown by me here in zone 5, well, just that first year, and for Shoe in NC for two years in a row.

I posted above about the heart versions of both Indian Stripe and Cherokee Purple and they too have retained their heart form, the latter being grown in both NC,his name is in the description at Victory Seeds, as well as for seed production in Oregon, by Mike Dunton at Victory Seeds. Two very different climates.

I already have someone from Canada participating in my current seed offer who wants to compare OM with the heart form, so we shall see.

Carolyn

[Andrey_BY]

Carolyn, we have one discussion about OM 2 shapes about a year ago ;-)

[delltraveller]

Carolyn, what characteristics distinguish a blunt heart from something else? How do I know that's what I'm looking at?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Andrey_BY

Carolyn, we have one discussion about OM 2 shapes about a year ago ;-)

Maybe so, I don't remember, but two years ago I would have already received the seeds from Big Daddy and perhaops asked you about it.

But I think the links I gave above show that most folks, including Tania whogot her seeds from you, are getting mostly beefsteaks from your original Orange Minsk. And when I looked at Tania's page for it I was surprised and pleased that so many seed vendors are offering it, with all thanks to you or we wouldn't have it, in either shape.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by delltraveller

Carolyn, what characteristics distinguish a blunt heart from something else? How do I know that's what I'm looking at?

I mentioned that above when I said it was a blunt heart, the same as Wes, so take a look at Wes fruits either at Tania'spage or do aGoogle IMAGE search.

I said that it wasn't a heart that tapered down at the bottom and used the examples of Kosovo and German Red Strawberry. Another blunt heart one is Russian #117.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

[GunnarSK]

The question for many including myself is whether the heart shape is stable, and I think this thread answers that.

The first time I grew Orange Minsk, I commented on this forum on the irregularity of the fruit shapes including numerous defects including catfacing. Comments I received included the fact that catfacing is normally a result of pollination in cooler weather. The fruits had a variety of shapes, but I didn't notice any leaning toward a heart shape. I even asked the seed vendor how the fruits he produced for seed looked. He said they looked normal and were attractive. I believe I purchased my seed from Glecklers who I believe got his seed from Carolyn.

I grew Orange Minsk again in my fall garden to insure they did not pollinate in cool weather. I again produced a variety of fruit shapes including some catfacing. Still no noticeable heart shapes.

I have germinated plants already for this years garden from the same purchased seed batch. No matter how they look, they are great tasting tomatoes. I am not really a fan of things that look perfect, but I usually want to know what causes the imperfections.

Ted

[Wi-sunflower]

I got my seeds for Orange Minsk from Carolyn's offer in 09

Here in the first pic is what I got from that. It almost looks like there could be 2 shapes on that plant.

The next pics are from 2010 grown from seeds I saved. Hard to tell from the pic if it's a blunt heart, but it's not beefsteak shaped.

Carol

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

I got my seeds for Orange Minsk from Carolyn's offer in 09

Here in the first pic is what I got from that. It almost looks like there could be 2 shapes on that plant.

The next pics are from 2010 grown from seeds I saved. Hard to tell from the pic if it's a blunt heart, but it's not beefsteak shaped.

Carol

Carol, I looked pretty closely and didn't see anything heart-like, the pix showed just the stem ends to my eyes. And as I posted above many in the SSE Yearbooks and here in this thread as well have commented about OM showing irregular shapes.

And the same can be seen in the link I gave to Google IMAGES, that is, irregular shapes.

Carolyn

[Fusion_power]

This is what a blunt heart should look like. Genes (elongated) and (fasciated) interact to produce this shape. This shape is stable only when the two genes are homozygous.

The Orange Minsk seed that are widely traded here in the U.S. are showing fasciated expression only. The only time I have seen two fruit types on a single plant was when the elongated gene was heterozygous. In other words, it would segregate and you would get 1 fasciated, 2 intermediate, and 1 blunt heart similar to the shape above. This does not preclude a mutation of the elongated gene so there is a possibility that this is a new variant.

DarJones

[Wi-sunflower]

I know the pics aren't all that good or definitive.

On the first pic the lower left fruit are beef shaped, but those in the upper right seem a bit more rounded.

In the 2 pics from the next year, yes, I couldn't tell if they are just nice globes or slightly elongated on the points, but definitely more round / globe than beef shaped.

Carol

[Redbaron]

Well Carolyn sent me:
Casino, Tadesse, Dester, Cartago pear (0 germinated) and Orange Minsk Heart.

Got my first Orange Minsk Heart today. WOW! Just WOW! A monster that tastes great! I love it! Mine is heart shaped but a kinda bulky fat heart.