Grapes (not tomatoes)

[fortyonenorth]

I'd like to plant some table grapes this year and curious about varieties and vendors. The kids like the pink-red ones, seedless of course. Any input from other home gardeners would be appreciated.

[Redbaron]

You might consider Muscadine Grapes.

Here is a seedless variety

http://store.isons.com/plants/red-va...s/fry-seedless

But to grow Muscadines right you should have a few varieties for cross pollination.

[kath]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

You might consider Muscadine Grapes.

I didn't think Muscadines were hardy as far north as we are.

kath

[Worth1]

I would go with a grape that is recommended for your area.
Try your local extension agent or university ag dept.

Worth

[clkeiper]

We grow concords and seedless. I like the canadice and the green seedless (no clue what it is, my FIL planted them) but if you haven't eaten homegrown ones be aware that they have somewhat tough skins I usually eat the innards and spit the skins.Not real ladylike, but they are tough. Nothing like a green or red seedless from Chile/S. America.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by kath

I didn't think Muscadines were hardy as far north as we are.

kath

Most Muscadines are hardy from zone 7 and higher, but a few are hardy to zone 6

I have eaten Muscadines grown in Central Indiana. So I know there are some varieties hardy there, although that may be the limit, not sure?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

We grow concords and seedless. I like the canadice and the green seedless (no clue what it is, my FIL planted them) but if you haven't eaten homegrown ones be aware that they have somewhat tough skins I usually eat the innards and spit the skins.Not real ladylike, but they are tough. Nothing like a green or red seedless from Chile/S. America.

There are table grapes and juice grapes.
For eating you want table grapes.
It has nothing to do with (Home Grown)
Worth

[fortyonenorth]

Thanks for the replies. The Ison's website is wonderful but, sadly, I may be on the fringe of hardiness for Muscadines here in NW Indiana. We're close enough to the lake (Michigan) that we enjoy a relatively balmy microclimate--even compared to a few miles inland--but, we still see the occasional "cold"winter, though not as often as in decades past.

Worth - good advice on the extension. I should take better advantage of their services. Our area tends to be an island of sand amid the rich surrounding land, so "advice" is often skewed towards the needs of the more traditional growing conditions and climate. Our area is considered "unsuitable for agriculture."

I was looking at Stark Bros.--they've been around forever, but I've never ordered from them. Any experience? I'm looking at Flame and Reliance, along with maybe Somerset. Cornell has a good information site that objectively describes most of the "modern" seedless varieties.

I have deer in the area, and while they've never caused problems with tomatoes, peppers and the like, I worry that grapes will be too much to resist. Am I right in this assumption?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by fortyonenorth

Thanks for the replies. The Ison's website is wonderful but, sadly, I may be on the fringe of hardiness for Muscadines here in NW Indiana. We're close enough to the lake (Michigan) that we enjoy a relatively balmy microclimate--even compared to a few miles inland--but, we still see the occasional "cold"winter, though not as often as in decades past.

Muscadine PDF file from NC Coop Ext Serv

They list a few hardy varieties. I guess it depends exactly how cold it gets where you are located.

You know your micro climate better than anyone. How cold does it get there?

[fortyonenorth]

RedBaron - I've never tasted Muscadines. From your perspective, how do they compare to "standard" table grapes?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by fortyonenorth

RedBaron - I've never tasted Muscadines. From your perspective, how do they compare to "standard" table grapes?

The varieties make a huge difference, but in general the skins are much thicker, the size is much larger, most have seeds, and the flavor is out of this world fantastic.

But taste is a subjective thing. All I can say is I am a huge fan of Muscadines.

To me it is a lot like being a fan of heirloom tomatoes. There are the rough edges like seeds and thick leathery skin. The traditional way to eat them is just nick the skin with your teeth and squeeze the inside into your mouth then spit the seeds.

The main advantage is they yield 100 pounds or more from each mature vine. I have even heard rumors of people getting 200 pounds or more, although I have never seen that myself.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by fortyonenorth

RedBaron - I've never tasted Muscadines. From your perspective, how do they compare to "standard" table grapes?

I will answer that question for you.
I have only had real Muscadines not the fake seedles ones.
Every year fathers, mothers, children and freinds would go out in the forest and pick these things.
Sometimes there would be 2 or 3 car loads of people headed to one place or another to pick.
The younger kids would climb the trees and drop the fruit to the grownups below.

We would then head back home and folks would make wine and jelly with them.

Some people think and call wild grapes muscadines but they arent.
Said fruit is about the size of a quarter and has about 22% to 25% sugar content.

They are good but not as good as sweet black table grapes.
By far the black table grape is the best for eating out of hand.
Seeds or no seeds.
I have found across the board that seedless fruit sacrifices sugar for seedless.
Less seeds less sugar.
I could go on and on about grapes but I would bore you to death about disease tolerance.
European grapes crossed with American grapes and muscadine being more tolerant than European grapes crossed or not.
The right weather causing better grapes.
The dryer the climate the better the grape.
Proper pruning.
Trellising.
The perfect time for picking.
But I wont.
Maybe I did.
I love a good grape.

Worth

[Dutch]

41n,
I grow Concord and King of the North here in southeastern Wisconsin. Both are seeded and relatively late to ripen. The King of the North (they are almost black) are quite sweet after the first light frost and can be eaten as table grapes. If I were looking for a red table grape, I would grow Reliance.
Minnesota Grape Growers Association is a great place to find information on northern varieties of grapes. http://mngrapegrowers.com/varieties
Dutch

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by Worth1

There are table grapes and juice grapes.
For eating you want table grapes.
It has nothing to do with (Home Grown)
Worth

Ours are table grapes, but the skin is much thicker than the commercial varieties. They are the canadice and maybe reliance (I think) we don't use them for wine or juice, just fresh eating. Concords are a juice grape and the skin is very similar in texture/toughness to the canadice grapes. But this our experience growing grapes, maybe others have a different result than us for the same grape variety. I do know that they are in no way similar to the grapes you buy at the store that are imported from Mexico and Chile. You can chew the skins and swallow them, the grapes we grow don't "chew" up real well. It is kind of like chewing on leather.

[Tormato]

Somerset is the most cold hardy, from what I've read. However, it likely isn't entirely "seedless". Often, it reportedly has a slightly crunchy empty ovule.

Swenson Red is by far my favorite. Not seedless, but it is the only
non-slipskin table grape I can find.

Tormato