Rutgers offering Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds

[Douglas_OW]

I received this email yesterday and thought that I would repost it here for those who might be interested.

Jim

Gardeners,

It’s that time of year that home gardeners get a jump on the season by selecting seeds to start indoors. You may have noticed that Ramapo tomato was in short supply for 2012. Our new batch of seeds didn’t come through in time for the 2012 growing season, but we are well stocked for 2013.
In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956. It turns out that many of the delicious Jersey Tomatoes sold on the fresh market were also processing varieties that farmers were growing for local canning companies like Campbell’s Soup. Even though it is a processing variety, it has incredible flavor as a fresh tomato. This variety was grown by Campbell's growers in a number of states besides New Jersey, so, like Ramapo and Moreton tomatoes, we expect it to perform well in various regions. Since we are piloting KC-146 this year, we will request gardener feedback at the end of the season.
You can find the order form for Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds on our website, with additional information on these varieties and growing tomatoes in the home garden at: http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/JerseyTomato.html
Rediscover the Jersey Tomato
Rutgers New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station

[carolyn137]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...0.html?12#post

In the thread above the parents of Ramapo F1 are given and the KC one Rutgers is now offering could well be one of the Ramapo parents as I see it, or very similar, just with a number line given.

You decide.

Carolyn, who doesn't want to confess how long it took her to find this link in her faves which numbers in the thousands, but it was happy click trip with remembrances of old.

[mdvpc]

I really have wanted to grow Moreton and Ramapo, but they have never done well in my desert Southwest garden. Maybe the move to San Antonio will give me a climate that is good for these. And now Jim, you have added another one I want to grow! Thanks for the info and link.

[Douglas_OW]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...0.html?12#post

In the thread above the parents of Ramapo F1 are given and the KC one Rutgers is now offering could well be one of the Ramapo parents as I see it, or very similar, just with a number line given.

You decide.

Carolyn, who doesn't want to confess how long it took her to find this link in her faves which numbers in the thousands, but it was happy click trip with remembrances of old.

One of the Ramapo parents has been cited as KCA:

http://www.dig-itmag.com/features/li.../337_0_6_10_M/

But, according to people at the source (a few years ago),

"The parent lines of Ramapo are ordinary tomatoes which
are not exceptional in any way, and seed is not available. It is the F1
hybrid seed of their combination which has the characteristics people prize."

http://tomatoville.com/showpost.php?...0&postcount=13

So, I would suspect that the new Rutgers KC-146 offering is not a Ramapo parent, but likely a relative.

Jim

[barkeater]

Originally Posted by Douglas_OW

In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956.

KC-146 seeds

(also known as Campbell’s 146) was developed by Campbell’s

Soup Company as a processing tomato and released in 1956. This variety was wilt and
crack-resistant and better flavored than other processing types. It was eventually

re-placed with newer varieties with a wider range of disease resistance. Campbell’s

maintained the KC-146 stock as a flavor standard.

I believe there are other sources like Sandhill Preservation for Campbells 146 if you don't want to order from Rutgers. By 1970, the predominate Campbells variety grown by fresh market farmers and gardeners in NJ was Campbells 1327, which is what I grew for early tomatoes. It is still a great tomato, and very solid.

[carolyn137]

Posted by naplesgardener: I assume the real parentage of Ramapo is secret...
Posted by hoosiercherokee: Besides, what are the two parents of Ramapo? What are your bets both of them are vintage commercial varieties?
I got my Ramapo seeds from the son-in-law of Dr. Bernard Pollack, who developed the the variety at Rutgers. He's probably the anonymous "retired plant genetecist" mentioned in the Times article. Here's Bernie's reply to my question about the parents of the Ramapo:
"...No secret. Ramapo is the result of a cross of KCA x Abbie. KCA is a breeding line I got from a plant breeder working for the Campbell Soup Co. in NJ and Abbie (named after my daughter) from a breeding line I received from a plant breeder friend in North Dakota. This line was still segregating so I made selections from it and purified the type I was interested in. Takes about 7 years of inbreeding..."
So, there it is.

#######

The above from what I linked to above.

Jim, in my post above I said possibly KCA-146 was the same or SIMILAR to the one Campbell variety used as a parent, and if you read the above that I cut and pasted you'll see the one Campbell parent was not given a number, and as Barkeater has just pointed out, there are lots of Campbell releases with different numbers and all of them round red processing ones.

As you can also see from what I linked to above, the parents of Ramapo F1 were so similar that it only took me to the F3 generation to be stable, as Barkeater also commented about in that GW thread from seeds I sent him. I was growing Ramapo F1 for comparison sake when making selections.

As I recall there's a nice thread in the Legacy Forum about Campbell and Heinz releases.

Carolyn

[Douglas_OW]

Yes, I understand. I guess that I read too much into the comment from Jack Rabin at Rutgers when he said that the parents were “not exceptional in any way”. Out of context, I would interpret that as meaning that the parents were average, or below, varieties. More likely, as you both have pointed out, it meant that they are not much different than the many other Campbell varieties.
Kind of like the people that finish the Boston Marathon in places 50 thru 500; just average folks.
Thanks for the insight.

Jim

[Alfredo]

So glad I found this thread/post, thanks for posting this info/link Douglas_OW...

Going to order some of those seeds to try out, just wish Rutgers would have it set up to order the seeds directly online, I would think its more efficient (not to mention a slightly greener way of purchasing the seeds), I could be wrong... (I see Harris Seeds sells the Moreton seeds, and I do remember seeing both the Rutgers and Ramapo tomato plants being sold as transplants in the better local garden nurseries/farms nearby, so those won't be a problem in finding if I want to just grow out one plant to try out of each).
I'm just used to ordering seeds with a click of a few buttons....wa waa Guess I'm spoiled in that respect...I'm going to just have to write a check up and fill out that form to get those KC-146 seeds. Might as well, it'll help support the good work being done over at Rutgers.

Thanks again,
Alfredo

[Urbanfarmer]

I can only speak from my experience growing Ramapo the first year they brought it back.....I think 2008. It sorely disappointed me: large seed cavities, and a ho-hum flavor. Meager yield as well. I grew it in the same crop with a lot of other heirlooms and I had a tremendous year with most. Not Ramapo.

I bought it direct from Rutgers.

[Urbanfarmer]

My results could have been from a bad batch of seed. It's happened before. I would encourage others to grow Ramapo, because you might have a result better than mine, and I'd like to know about that.

[nnjjohn]

First off, I'm by no means a pro gardener,, but I tried rutgers and ramapo plants from two different nj nurseries last two seasons.. the first time, they grew about the sizes between rubber racket ball size many about the size of tennis ball and the larger just about baseball size.. that being said.. I wasn't all that impressed with the taste.. I love slicing tomato .. I'm a ham on chesse kind a guy.. chees burger chesse burger I think I remember what a jersey use to taste like, smell like on my sandwiches.. Maybe i have to feed the plants more sugar? Either way, I'm not bothering with them this year.. going to try other mato plants.

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by Douglas_OW

I received this email yesterday and thought that I would repost it here for those who might be interested.

Jim

Gardeners,

It’s that time of year that home gardeners get a jump on the season by selecting seeds to start indoors. You may have noticed that Ramapo tomato was in short supply for 2012. Our new batch of seeds didn’t come through in time for the 2012 growing season, but we are well stocked for 2013.
In addition to old time favorites Ramapo and Moreton tomato seeds, this year we are adding another old-time variety, KC-146. You’ve probably never heard of this tomato, because it was a processing variety developed by Campbell’s Soup Company released in 1956. It turns out that many of the delicious Jersey Tomatoes sold on the fresh market were also processing varieties that farmers were growing for local canning companies like Campbell’s Soup. Even though it is a processing variety, it has incredible flavor as a fresh tomato. This variety was grown by Campbell's growers in a number of states besides New Jersey, so, like Ramapo and Moreton tomatoes, we expect it to perform well in various regions. Since we are piloting KC-146 this year, we will request gardener feedback at the end of the season.
You can find the order form for Ramapo, Moreton and KC-146 seeds on our website, with additional information on these varieties and growing tomatoes in the home garden at: http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/JerseyTomato.html
Rediscover the Jersey Tomato
Rutgers New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station

I can say from my experience, the ramapo is a bigger and better tasting slicer over the rutgers which seem to taste mushy compared to the ramapo, jmho.. and the ram plants are thicker broader plant. if i decide on buying some,, I'll go with the ramapo plants.

[barkeater]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

First off, I'm by no means a pro gardener,, but I tried rutgers and ramapo plants from two different nj nurseries last two seasons.. the first time, they grew about the sizes between rubber racket ball size many about the size of tennis ball and the larger just about baseball size.. .

Well-grown Ramapo tomatoes average between 7-12 ounces and I've had some up to 1.25#. Rutgers are consistently about tennis ball size, give or take a few ounces, and was the most popular tomato in the U.S. in the 40's and 50's.

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by barkeater

Well-grown Ramapo tomatoes average between 7-12 ounces and I've had some up to 1.25#. Rutgers are consistently about tennis ball size, give or take a few ounces, and was the most popular tomato in the U.S. in the 40's and 50's.

Weather can play a big part in how a tomatoe tastes , at least it does in my outdoor garden! I sure hope I am doing right trying big boys and super beef steaks.. now I'm thinking ramapo plants where i bought them last year down the street.. Any advice from those who are more experienced growers/tasters of slicing tomatoes?

[Alfredo]

Well I can't add anything to the thread about the Ramapo tomatoes(or Rutgers tomatoes), as I've never tried or have had an interest in growing either of them. Plus...with the glowing reviews on both of these varieties on here I probably won't be trying them anytime soon either (just kidding).

I did receive my order of Moreton and KC 146 tomato seeds though from Rutgers University's NJ Agricultural Experiment Station. Only took a week to get here since I reside in NJ. I grow mostly heirlooms ( e.g. Pruden's Purple, Black Krim, Aunt Gertie's Gold, etc) but I'm looking forward to see how these 2 tomatoes grow and taste in comparison. This is a pic of the seed packets for them:
MoretonandKC146seeds.jpg

~Alfredo