Grafting Selection?

CarolynPhillips · January 30, 2013

I have never grafted tomatoes yet. I have been growing different varieties in my area to decide which ones I wanted to graft.
If a tomato plant has a specific resistance that you desire and you graft your favorite tomato fruit to that base, that new top (scion?) should inherit that resistance, Right????? I haven't learned all the lingo for grafting either.

checkerkitty · January 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolynPhillips

I have never grafted tomatoes yet. I have been growing different varieties in my area to decide which ones I wanted to graft.
If a tomato plant has a pacific resistance that you desire and you graft your favorite tomato fruit to that base, that new top (scion?) should inherit that resistance, Right????? I haven't learned all the lingo for grafting either.

I'm going to try my hand at grafting this year. I'm using Celebrity and Big Beef as my root stock since I decided to try this a little too late to order Maxifort or any of the other root stock and Lowes had the Celebrity and Big Beef in stock at a great price. I'll call this frugal experimentation

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but it is my understanding that by grafting, you are only getting the root stock resistance to soil diseases and pathogens. There will be no increased resistance to foliar diseases for the scion and there will be no genetic transfer of disease/pathogen/nematode resistance to any of the resulting fruit. That's why when you plant a grafted tomato, you must be sure that the grafting scar is well above the soil line. Otherwise, the plant stem from the scion portion of the graft will root into the ground and negate any benefit from the graft since there is no resistance that's inherited. It would be as if you didn't do the graft and just planted your heirloom/OP plant straight in the ground.

There are lots of other members here who are much more knowledgeable than I am on this subject. I'm sure they will chime in, also. Have you chosen a root stock yet?

Christy

CarolynPhillips · January 30, 2013

That really sucks about No increased resistance to foliar diseases. I was really hoping it
would. I had found out that Tommy Toe was resistant to early blight and I grew a few plants and it was the only plant that did not get blight but it was also the only fruit that I did not like. I grew them all in containers on a subsoil bed.
Big Beef will be my main root stock but I was so hoping that I could use the Tommy Toe too and it would give the scion some blight resistance for the plants that I would grow in new locations and in containers.

Redbaron · January 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolynPhillips

That really sucks about No increased resistance to foliar diseases. I was really hoping it
would. I had found out that Tommy Toe was resistant to early blight and I grew a few plants and it was the only plant that did not get blight but it was also the only fruit that I did not like. I grew them all in containers on a subsoil bed.
Big Beef will be my main root stock but I was so hoping that the Tommy Toe would give the scion some blight resistance for the plants that I would grow in new locations and in containers.

Actually there are some interactions between roots and foliage. So theoretically you could get some benefit.

I have never seen it proven one way or the other though. I too would like to hear an opinion from an expert that has actually test trialed it.

Dutch · January 30, 2013

Hi Carolyn in Alabama,
I hope the humidity problems from all the rain you had last summer is getting or has been fixed. You said you were busy building a new house. I hope all is well.
As far as the grafting goes, I hope Marla (Mim1) sees your post here and can answer some of your questions. She, as well as others here, explain things in a way that is easier to understand then the way I would.
Below is a link to a technical article from 2010, addressing the question, “Do Disease Resistances of Rootstocks and Scions Translocate to Each Other?"
http://5041807.weebly.tal.ki/20100901/grafting-controversies-of-all-things-124138/
Dutch

CarolynPhillips · January 30, 2013

the main construction of the house is complete......still installing insulation and wall panels, alittle here and alittle there....as money permits.
Last years tomato crop had a wide coverage of powdery mildew and Late Blight. It was rainy and temps would vary from a week of warm rain to a week of cool rain. I think some had fusarium wilt because they had plenty of water but they would wilt during the day and perk up by evening and morning and they had brown lesions on the stems. I plan to grow veggie plants in those beds that are not nightshade until mid summer and solarize the beds for a month and then start a late crop of bush beans, and then a fall crop of broccoli and cauliflower. Will try tomatoes again the following spring but not in all the beds all at one time. I need to make a crop rotation schedule.
Meanwhile, I have another garden plot that hasn't had tomatoes growing in it for 4 years and never had a disease problem in that area.

Thank you Dutch for the link. I am still reading other links giving in that article.

awsumth · January 30, 2013

Grafting works well if you have poor soil or nematode problems. My soil is poor but I amend it very well, and nematodes are nearly impossible to get rid of.

If you do try grafting, I'd expect you to get a more vigorous plant than your others, so try it if you'd like. The fact that the rootstock has a lot of different resistances helps prevent any type of disease or infection from enter and killing the scion.

CarolynPhillips · January 30, 2013

I am still heart set on trying Tommy Toe as a root stock. I had such high hopes for an early blight solution. I have to try it for a couple of years and see what happens.

The other grafting selection I made was Big Beef root stock and Brandywine scion but I was wondering if they would be a good match because one is RL and one is PL? Does that matter?

JamesL · January 30, 2013

Carolyn,
I am right there with you on wanting to try some grafting this year.
My understanding is that RL and PL make no difference, so go for it.

Mlm1 · January 30, 2013

Hi Carolyn,
I agree with Christy's comments but I would add that although the rootstock does not confer resistance to foliar diseases I do think that the increased vigor of the roots can increase the uptake of water and nutrients resulting in an overall healthier plant. A healthier plant may have increased ability to survive infections (such as early blight). I do believe my grafted plants do better no matter what the adversity (virus, bacteria, insect, weather). I think they are stronger healthier plants overall. And of course they do far better with the soil born diseases (fusarium).
I think it would be interesting to see if your heirlooms do any better with Early Blight if they are grafted to Tommy Toe. It would be a good way to start the grafting process since the rootstock is not expensive. It does not matter if the rootstock is RL and the scion is PL. I hope you keep us updated on your project.
Hopefully this is helpful.
Marla

b54red · January 30, 2013

Carolyn, as someone who has fought fusarium for many years I think you did well choosing Big Beef and Celebrity for rootstock. They both are resistant to two races of fusarium and have both done well for me in the past. I am also trying Big Beef as a rootstock this year. If the grafting works out then I am going to try to find a source of cheap Amelia seeds as they are resistant to three races of fusarium and are the choice of commercial growers around here.

Mlm1 · January 30, 2013

b54red, I am trying Multifort rootstock seed this year for the first time. I'll compare it to Maxifort and Beaufort. It also has resistance to all 3 races of fusarium. I got it from Paramount. Can't remember how expensive they are. So far Maxifort (with resistance to only 2 races) has been adequate but being in the California Central Valley I think it is just a matter of time before all 3 races find me.

JamesL · January 30, 2013

Marla,
Did you have a preference and or notice significant differences between maxifort and Beaufort?

Mlm1 · January 30, 2013

James, I think Maxifort was a little more vigorous in growth than Beaufort but not a dramatic difference. I prefer Maxifort for my garden in California but I use Beaufort for my family in Montana since Beaufort is supposed to have cold tolerance. I thought it might add a few weeks to their growing season up there but haven't been able to confirm that yet. Some of the descriptions of Maxifort make it sound like it might be too vigorous for heirlooms but I don't think that is a problem. I have even used Maxifort on plants that were pruned to one stem in a 5 gal pot and they did very well. Both had erratic germination and the seedlings seem very small at first but they catch up. To answer your second question I really might not have been able to tell which was Maxifort vs Beaufort without my tags. There really wasn't that much difference.

JamesL · January 30, 2013

Marla,
Thank you for that. Good information.

January 30, 2013	#1
CarolynPhillips Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Nauvoo, Alabama Posts: 184	Grafting Selection? I have never grafted tomatoes yet. I have been growing different varieties in my area to decide which ones I wanted to graft. If a tomato plant has a specific resistance that you desire and you graft your favorite tomato fruit to that base, that new top (scion?) should inherit that resistance, Right????? I haven't learned all the lingo for grafting either. __________________ Happy Gardening Carolyn

January 30, 2013	#3
CarolynPhillips Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Nauvoo, Alabama Posts: 184	That really sucks about No increased resistance to foliar diseases. I was really hoping it would. I had found out that Tommy Toe was resistant to early blight and I grew a few plants and it was the only plant that did not get blight but it was also the only fruit that I did not like. I grew them all in containers on a subsoil bed. Big Beef will be my main root stock but I was so hoping that I could use the Tommy Toe too and it would give the scion some blight resistance for the plants that I would grow in new locations and in containers. __________________ Happy Gardening Carolyn Last edited by CarolynPhillips; January 30, 2013 at 12:17 PM.

January 30, 2013	#6
CarolynPhillips Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Nauvoo, Alabama Posts: 184	the main construction of the house is complete......still installing insulation and wall panels, alittle here and alittle there....as money permits. Last years tomato crop had a wide coverage of powdery mildew and Late Blight. It was rainy and temps would vary from a week of warm rain to a week of cool rain. I think some had fusarium wilt because they had plenty of water but they would wilt during the day and perk up by evening and morning and they had brown lesions on the stems. I plan to grow veggie plants in those beds that are not nightshade until mid summer and solarize the beds for a month and then start a late crop of bush beans, and then a fall crop of broccoli and cauliflower. Will try tomatoes again the following spring but not in all the beds all at one time. I need to make a crop rotation schedule. Meanwhile, I have another garden plot that hasn't had tomatoes growing in it for 4 years and never had a disease problem in that area. Thank you Dutch for the link. I am still reading other links giving in that article. __________________ Happy Gardening Carolyn

January 30, 2013	#8
CarolynPhillips Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Nauvoo, Alabama Posts: 184	I am still heart set on trying Tommy Toe as a root stock. I had such high hopes for an early blight solution. I have to try it for a couple of years and see what happens. The other grafting selection I made was Big Beef root stock and Brandywine scion but I was wondering if they would be a good match because one is RL and one is PL? Does that matter? __________________ Happy Gardening Carolyn

January 30, 2013	#5
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Hi Carolyn in Alabama, I hope the humidity problems from all the rain you had last summer is getting or has been fixed. You said you were busy building a new house. I hope all is well. As far as the grafting goes, I hope Marla (Mim1) sees your post here and can answer some of your questions. She, as well as others here, explain things in a way that is easier to understand then the way I would. Below is a link to a technical article from 2010, addressing the question, “Do Disease Resistances of Rootstocks and Scions Translocate to Each Other?" http://5041807.weebly.tal.ki/20100901/grafting-controversies-of-all-things-124138/ Dutch

January 30, 2013	#7
awsumth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: South Florida Posts: 40	Grafting works well if you have poor soil or nematode problems. My soil is poor but I amend it very well, and nematodes are nearly impossible to get rid of. If you do try grafting, I'd expect you to get a more vigorous plant than your others, so try it if you'd like. The fact that the rootstock has a lot of different resistances helps prevent any type of disease or infection from enter and killing the scion.

January 30, 2013	#9
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	Carolyn, I am right there with you on wanting to try some grafting this year. My understanding is that RL and PL make no difference, so go for it.

January 30, 2013	#10
Mlm1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern California Posts: 208	Hi Carolyn, I agree with Christy's comments but I would add that although the rootstock does not confer resistance to foliar diseases I do think that the increased vigor of the roots can increase the uptake of water and nutrients resulting in an overall healthier plant. A healthier plant may have increased ability to survive infections (such as early blight). I do believe my grafted plants do better no matter what the adversity (virus, bacteria, insect, weather). I think they are stronger healthier plants overall. And of course they do far better with the soil born diseases (fusarium). I think it would be interesting to see if your heirlooms do any better with Early Blight if they are grafted to Tommy Toe. It would be a good way to start the grafting process since the rootstock is not expensive. It does not matter if the rootstock is RL and the scion is PL. I hope you keep us updated on your project. Hopefully this is helpful. Marla

January 30, 2013	#11
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Carolyn, as someone who has fought fusarium for many years I think you did well choosing Big Beef and Celebrity for rootstock. They both are resistant to two races of fusarium and have both done well for me in the past. I am also trying Big Beef as a rootstock this year. If the grafting works out then I am going to try to find a source of cheap Amelia seeds as they are resistant to three races of fusarium and are the choice of commercial growers around here.