Similarly named Variety question

[SunnyK]

I just recieved seeds of a variety named 'Market Wonder', I already have seeds of a variety called 'Italian Market Wonder' ...so, I just want to confirm that these are 2 different varieties and figured this was the place where folks would know. :-D. Thanks!

[KarenO]

Can you check with the person you got them from? Market wonder is an Italian heirloom so I think they could be the same variety. One way to know for sure is to grow them both and compare.
KarenO

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by SunnyK

I just recieved seeds of a variety named 'Market Wonder', I already have seeds of a variety called 'Italian Market Wonder' ...so, I just want to confirm that these are 2 different varieties and figured this was the place where folks would know. :-D. Thanks!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient...w=1037&bih=376

Maybe the above Google search might help b/c I'm still "wondering" myself

Tania lists the Italian MW but not just Market Wonder and I thought that one had a name in another language, don't remember what it was, so can't look for it.

Aha, I just remembered, delayed brain function, and Market Wonder is a French variety while Italian Market Wonder is supposed to be an Italian variety.

I took a glance at some pictures and descriptions and will let you be the judge of whether they are the same or different

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...w=1037&bih=376



Perhaps someone here has grown both Market Wonder AND Italian Market Wonder in the same season and can answer your question better than I can.

But there's lots to check out from the links I gave above.

Carolyn

[Doug9345]

The seed source for Italian Market Wonder is listed as Gourmet Intermational. They list it simply as Market Wonder.
On the seed pack the names are
Italian-Meraviglia del Mercato
French-Marveille des Marches
Spanish-Maravilla dos Mercados

The description under Italian Market Wonder matches my experience with Market Wonder last year.

[kygreg]

Mergaviglia Del Mercato = Market Wonder = Market Miracle = Miracle of the Market = Chudo Rynka

[carolyn137]

I went back to Tania's site and pulled out the following two links:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/M...ia_Del_Mercato

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/M...s_March%C3%A9s

....... after I remembered the correct name.

Gets confusing, doesn't it.

Carolyn

[SunnyK]

Thanks everyone. Boy this absolutely does get confusing. And really does drive home the point about careful labeling of seeds.

[Tormato]

There'll likely be several questions about varieties in the swap (which should be about done by Wednesday). After that, I can try to reach the one who donated such variety, and see if they will respond here, or at Gardenweb.

Gary

[Doug9345]

Maybe I can speed this up. I sent Market Wonder seed. The label should have my name on it. If there is more than one Doug in the trade I have a common last name. If it's one i missed my name on then I wrote them all in blue ink and used half of a 1" x 3" stick on label.

[SunnyK]

Thanks for checking in Doug. I don't have my seeds in front of me, but I do believe they are yours. Can you weigh in on the subject of whether Italian Market Wonder and Market Wonder is the same or is a seperate variety .

[Doug9345]

I just had a very long post detailing my research over the last couple of hours or so into the matter when my computer crashed. I don't want to recreate it now but will sometime tomorrow.

The short version is that the name Italian Market wonder seems to trace back to the Wintersown organization. Another lead was a post on another forum by a woman whose handle that I recognized from a third forum saying she had bought it from gourmet seeds, the same company that I did. I sent an email to wintersown asking if they knew the history of the variety and a pm to this woman.

I'll post my research tomorrow since it will take me a little while to re cut and paste it all.

Right now my belief is that it's the same variety that was most likely sold or traded under both names. Its name has been translated throughout Europe into multiple languages.

[carolyn137]

Doug, the name Italian Market Wonder I've seen in earlier SSE Yearbooks I'm pretty sure so I don't think it traces back to Wintersown.

This morning I decided to check out Ventmarin, and I hit the jackpot.

The original is Merveille des Marches, and is a French variety and in the following link lots of background, with pictures, and the variety goes back to 1885 as first offered by Vilmorin, that wonderful French seed house still in operation today. And somewhere around here I actually have a reproduction paperback of that 1885 Vilmorin catalog, which is huge and with lots of gorgeous pen and ink drawings and luckily the English version.



http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tom...ates_mb_mi.htm


Just scroll down to Merveille des Marches.

Ventmarin lists nothing like Italian Market Wonder and the site owner would have done that if he thought that it was a different variety.

So I believe that there is but ONE variety, the original being the Merveille one and really have no idea where the name Italian Market Wonder came from.

Since almost all of the varieties at wintersown are donated seeds I don't think it's unusual that someone somewhere got seeds that WERE labelled Italian Market Wonder, and that name was perpetuated, probably wrongly.

No different really, from the names Variegata and Splash of Cream , which are the same variety as well as Indian Stripe and Indian Zebra, both refer to the same variety. And i could give several other examples, but won't, b/c it would just take this thread way off topic and I don't want to do that.

Carolyn

[Doug9345]

Carolyn I'm glad you came to the same conclusion that I did. As I wrote above I spent a couple of hours last night not only assuring my self that they are in fact in variety but also trying to figure out where the Italian got prepended to the name. If it was just from the Seed Savers Exchange and other places that are handling seed from individuals I can see how it happened, but Tatiana has Italian Market Wonder in her TOMATObase and Gourmet Seeds as the supplier and I was Googling Italian Market Market Wonder last night when I came across a post in another forum that indicated that this Woman had bought her seed from Gourmet seeds.

I know Tatianna is very careful about keeping names straight. This other woman I recognized as being a semi regular on another Forum. This leads me to believe that Gourmet has sold it at sometime as Italian Market Wonder. Now here is the weird part. I bought my seed for Market Wonder in 2010 from Gourmet Seeds and I know it was listed as such, because I found Gourmet Seeds when I was looking for Mortage Lifter. That means they were close together at the web site and therefore marketed as Market Wonder and not Italian Market Wonder.

I hope this helps.

[SunnyK]

Wow, thanks Carolyn and Doug. This helps immensely as I haveonly enough room for 24 plants which translates to around 12-14 varieties. I was going to grow out both packs of seeds, but now I feel almost certain that.they are the same, and now I wont have to use up space that another variety can occupy. Thank you so much!