Growing tip turning brown and dying

tlintx · June 22, 2013

I hesitate to ask, since this is such an experimental crop (very hot and humid out there), but the growing tips on several of my plants have turned brown and died.

Four plants are badly affected -- two at the end of a new bed, two in an older bed. I used "compost" but no manure that I'm aware of.

It's entirely possible I roasted them, but if it's something fatal I'd like to be aware of it!

photo.jpg photo (1).jpg photo (3).jpg ed photo (2).jpg

Edited to add a closeup. It sure looks worse in the photos than it did to the eye!

Tl

Heritage · June 22, 2013

tlintx,

That's an interesting set of photos. Could you also post a closeup of the 'stippling' showing on the bottom leaves. If you have a macro setting on your camera, a photo of both the top and bottom surface of a typical leaf would be helpful.

Steve

zeroma · June 22, 2013

how much compost did you use? and was it completely composted?

tlintx · June 22, 2013

Interesting in a good way or interesting in a "I could use your plants to teach an entire class on what can go wrong with tomato plants" way?

Okay, here's the Little Lucky Heart. I actually saw a very tiny spider making a web between the stumps of the growing tip. The holes in the leaves I attributed to one of the many bugs and caterpillars we have roaming this here parts.

IMG_1627.jpg IMG_1628.jpg IMG_1629.jpg

Not sure which this is. I thought it was leaf miners on the lower leaves.

IMG_1631.jpg IMG_1630.jpg

And the Nyagous in the other bed. It's just starting to be affected.

IMG_1634.jpg IMG_1638.jpg

The LLH and the second plant are in the same bed, the Nyagous is in the new bed. I already pulled two plants from the end of the new bed -- they were just sort of crumpled. I figured it was the heat.

tlintx · June 22, 2013

I used bagged stuff, labeled "compost". Some labeled peat humus (compost and composted forest products). Mushroom compost. And a couple of bags of topsoil. I added some green waste on the generally right side of the bed, under the newspaper over the sod, but everything looks fine on that side. And the older bed, which seems the hardest hit, has been there since March -- the plants in it didn't lose their growing tips in the Spring.

I think I added osmocote and some Jobe's organic fertilizer (at the recommended rates). Also some weak fish emulsion later.

I really had just figured that I over-babied them by watering too much and then hurt them by not watering enough after planting. It's a really brutal time of year to keep anything going around here and I'm still learning and experimenting.

eta, it's been exactly eleven days since transplant, if that means anything.

Sun City Linda · June 23, 2013

I don't know about any possible disease but I suspect it is WAY late to be planting out in TX.

Heritage · June 23, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlintx

Interesting in a good way or interesting in a "I could use your plants to teach an entire class on what can go wrong with tomato plants" way?

Interesting, because I've personally never seen quite that much thrips damage on a tomato plant, but I think that is the pest responsible for the raspy, jagged lines on the leaves. The distortion on the new growth could also be caused by thrips feeding. I'm not sure about the blackened leaves, they look more stress related or something secondary to the thrips damage. If you have a 15X hand lens check out the growing tip and look for signs of thrips instar. You probably won't see any of the adult thrips because they are pretty jumpy.

Good luck,
Steve

tlintx · June 23, 2013

NO! It's never too late!!!

Actually, you're right. My spring crop is already done on the south side of the house and my fall crop seeds were planted a few days ago.

This is a "bridge" crop, with the goal of seeing if I can get some late varieties through the summer. Think of it like starting plants indoors in the winter for spring, except that "indoors" in this case is ridiculously hot and humid and filled with bugs.

Thank you, Steve! The ones near the house have no damage at all -- these are the ones at the back of the lot. I need to do some research on thrips! And go water.

tlintx · June 25, 2013

Okay, I sprayed last night with neem oil.

Half the plants in the new bed look just fine, the other half, the growing tip is curling up and then turning brown and dying. The effect is exaggerated because I had to pull two plants and replaced them with shorter seedlings.

I'm trying to hear horses, not zebras, so I'm thinking it's heat and water stress (and thrips), not herbicide lurking in the compost (which I'm pretty sure was all forest products anyway). Hopefully the neem oil helps with the thrips!

tlintx · July 3, 2013

Okay, I have no new thrip damage. Yay neem oil!

But the growth tip on the Nyagous in the new raised bed is still tightly curled and turning brown. The plants 18" to the left and right of it seem unaffected. The new leaves on all the plants seem normal.

I wasn't diligent about mixing up the bags I dumped in there, so I guess it's possible it's just sitting in the worst of something horrible lurking in the soil, but wouldn't it be much more likely to be damage due to heat stress? Since the other affected plant is in a different bed (that I did amend a little from the new one)? Can heat stress cause the growing tip to curl up tightly, turn brown, and die?

I probably seem very nervous without cause about herbicides, but I can't feed produce from a herbicide damaged plant to my family. This is why I like soil-less mix and pots.

Is there a hot weather plant I can use to do a test?

eta, okay, I did a bunch of googling, and I'm feeling a bit reassured. There's no leaf cupping on any of my plants.

Heritage · July 3, 2013

Tl, I would pull the Nyagous plant and toss it. You have given it enough chances, and there is a chance it is virused.

Steve

tlintx · July 3, 2013

I pulled it ASAP.

Some pictures of the growing tip, which actually seemed to have stopped browning out:

enena6en.jpg

tyhuhu2y.jpg

I didn't see anything this "curly" on any of the other plants - it looks much worse than the photos. Still too inexperienced to know what to look for!

Do you think I should go all b54red on the rest of them?

Would it even help?

Tl

Heritage · July 3, 2013

Tl, please check the growing tip thoroughly with a hand lens - 15x power or greater. If there are russet mites they will be difficult to spot even with a magnifier - there will be small green wedge-shaped spots. Some of the instars of thrips can look similar so you will need to Google. To me it looks more like mite or thrips damage than either herbicide, or virus, damage. But, if I had a plant with similar symptoms, and couldn't find the mites or thrips, I'd assume the worst (virus) and destroy the plant. Please keep the updates coming.

Steve

Heritage · July 3, 2013

Also, did any of the plant growing tips improve after the Neem/soap spray?

Heritage · July 3, 2013

Also,

, check on the underside of the normal looking leaves that correspond to the patches of yellow on the top leaf surface. Again, looking for mites (or small, round, mite eggs). I see a few normal leaves that look like possible mites.

June 22, 2013	#1
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	Growing tip turning brown and dying I hesitate to ask, since this is such an experimental crop (very hot and humid out there), but the growing tips on several of my plants have turned brown and died. Four plants are badly affected -- two at the end of a new bed, two in an older bed. I used "compost" but no manure that I'm aware of. It's entirely possible I roasted them, but if it's something fatal I'd like to be aware of it! photo.jpg photo (1).jpg photo (3).jpg ed photo (2).jpg Edited to add a closeup. It sure looks worse in the photos than it did to the eye! Tl Last edited by tlintx; June 22, 2013 at 03:27 PM. Reason: pictures

June 22, 2013	#5
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	I used bagged stuff, labeled "compost". Some labeled peat humus (compost and composted forest products). Mushroom compost. And a couple of bags of topsoil. I added some green waste on the generally right side of the bed, under the newspaper over the sod, but everything looks fine on that side. And the older bed, which seems the hardest hit, has been there since March -- the plants in it didn't lose their growing tips in the Spring. I think I added osmocote and some Jobe's organic fertilizer (at the recommended rates). Also some weak fish emulsion later. I really had just figured that I over-babied them by watering too much and then hurt them by not watering enough after planting. It's a really brutal time of year to keep anything going around here and I'm still learning and experimenting. eta, it's been exactly eleven days since transplant, if that means anything. Last edited by tlintx; June 22, 2013 at 10:39 PM.

June 23, 2013	#8
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	NO! It's never too late!!! Actually, you're right. My spring crop is already done on the south side of the house and my fall crop seeds were planted a few days ago. This is a "bridge" crop, with the goal of seeing if I can get some late varieties through the summer. Think of it like starting plants indoors in the winter for spring, except that "indoors" in this case is ridiculously hot and humid and filled with bugs. Thank you, Steve! The ones near the house have no damage at all -- these are the ones at the back of the lot. I need to do some research on thrips! And go water. Last edited by tlintx; June 23, 2013 at 12:39 PM.

June 25, 2013	#9
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	Okay, I sprayed last night with neem oil. Half the plants in the new bed look just fine, the other half, the growing tip is curling up and then turning brown and dying. The effect is exaggerated because I had to pull two plants and replaced them with shorter seedlings. I'm trying to hear horses, not zebras, so I'm thinking it's heat and water stress (and thrips), not herbicide lurking in the compost (which I'm pretty sure was all forest products anyway). Hopefully the neem oil helps with the thrips! Last edited by tlintx; June 25, 2013 at 01:45 PM.

July 3, 2013	#10
tlintx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: SeTx Posts: 881	Okay, I have no new thrip damage. Yay neem oil! But the growth tip on the Nyagous in the new raised bed is still tightly curled and turning brown. The plants 18" to the left and right of it seem unaffected. The new leaves on all the plants seem normal. I wasn't diligent about mixing up the bags I dumped in there, so I guess it's possible it's just sitting in the worst of something horrible lurking in the soil, but wouldn't it be much more likely to be damage due to heat stress? Since the other affected plant is in a different bed (that I did amend a little from the new one)? Can heat stress cause the growing tip to curl up tightly, turn brown, and die? I probably seem very nervous without cause about herbicides, but I can't feed produce from a herbicide damaged plant to my family. This is why I like soil-less mix and pots. Is there a hot weather plant I can use to do a test? eta, okay, I did a bunch of googling, and I'm feeling a bit reassured. There's no leaf cupping on any of my plants. Last edited by tlintx; July 3, 2013 at 02:27 PM.

June 22, 2013	#2
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	tlintx, That's an interesting set of photos. Could you also post a closeup of the 'stippling' showing on the bottom leaves. If you have a macro setting on your camera, a photo of both the top and bottom surface of a typical leaf would be helpful. Steve

June 22, 2013	#3
zeroma Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 637	how much compost did you use? and was it completely composted?

June 23, 2013	#6
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	I don't know about any possible disease but I suspect it is WAY late to be planting out in TX.

July 3, 2013	#15
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	Also, , check on the underside of the normal looking leaves that correspond to the patches of yellow on the top leaf surface. Again, looking for mites (or small, round, mite eggs). I see a few normal leaves that look like possible mites.