Help me manage this hot mess

[tnkrer]

OR
How to prune the cramped tomato plants

After 7 weeks .. the tomato plants are now over 6 ft tall. (yay! Last year they reached that height at the end of the season, so this season, they are doing much better.) They are vigorous, have many blossoms, fruits etc .. so everything is great. I need to extend the cage beyond that height though.



However, the different branches are fighting with each other and denying new growth. This year, based on what some other container gardeners have said, I decided to not remove any suckers. And it was fine for a while. But right now, I am noticing that some of the new growth is being smothered by existing branches and the new leaves seem to be weak, their blossoms don't seem perky. So how should I prune these plants



So I am thinking I can follow these rules to manage the crowded plant
1. Any set of leaves below the first truss of fruits can be cut (on main stem, this is already done, but would that apply to any stem? If those leaves are not helping the fruits on that stem or anywhere else, those can go
2. If new growth and established growth are fighting for space, cut off part of the branch of the established growth to give space to the new growth
3. At any time do not take off a whole branch
4. At any time do not partially cut more than two branches per fruit truss

Do these make sense? Anything wrong with them? What logic do you use to prune if you are never taking of any suckers?

[tlintx]

Why not take off the suckers? Keep it to two or three stems? I haven't heard of any benefits to keeping part of two branches, say, over removing one and keeping another?

Have you read the page on Tomodori about pruning? It's worth bookmarking! It's linked in this thread about pruning.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27882

You might also want to look at Missouri pruning - it's useful when things are out of control.


Tl

[Father'sDaughter]

I used to be hesitant about pruning my tomato plants for fear I'd damage them some how. I quickly learned that it was next to impossible to hurt them this way. As long as I leave enough greenery for the plant to look full, but not bushy, and the fruit to have some sun protection, I've had no problem with randomly thinning out branches of leaves. I prune to a couple of stems and stake, but when we get back from our annual trip in mid-August, the plants always need a good haircut! Just make sure you're pruners are clean and sharp.

[tnkrer]

Tl, The thread you linked is where Carolyn had said that she never pruned suckers. Raybo also mentions that he never prunes suckers. Last year I had husky red cherry in the same place where I have sunsugar right now. I kept husky cherry to 1 stem last year and ended with about 10 fruit trusses. (about 90 cherry tomatoes). Right now I have about 18 fruit trusses on the sunsugar on 7 different stems. And we are only at mid-point of the season. So this will definitely give more yield. Keeping to 3-4 stems may be the best compromise between keeping the plant un-crowded and getting more fruit. I was planning to remove any new suckers after 15 Aug, since they won't really have any chance of giving ripe fruit after that. I have decided that single stem is not ideal in terms of the yield for container caged plant. However, I need to figure out the most ideal way to control the crowding. Limiting to 4-6 stems is probably better.

Father's daughter thanks for giving me some confidence in going and removing some foliage.

[tlintx]

I just reread that whole thread, and I don't know what to say! Lots of good but conflicting advice on pruning out there.

My feeling is, you have to look at your growing conditions. Having lots and lots of fruit set on rampant vines won't help much if you lose all your plants to disease! Nor will having three perfect, large trusses be of any use if the plants are so pruned they get sunscald.

Congratulations on your fruit set, by the way!!! Sounds like next year you need a bigger pot.

[livinonfaith]

tnkrer, I'm in the same position, except I don't have as much room between my plants. I've usually kept them down to about two or three stems and didn't this year. I was kind of hoping for more tomatoes, but the foliage has taken over to the point that it's just a solid wall.

I think, at this point it would be helpful to get in there and cut out any branches that haven't set fruit or flowers yet and are getting in the way of ones that have. I'm not going to use any hard and fast rules, just go by which ones look like they need to go to improve the air flow around the plant without losing any fruit.

I don't want to cut too many of the large branches, mainly the new smaller suckers. Hopefully, that will give the plant a little more energy to concentrate on the existing fruit and flowers instead of all that new foliage.

[nolabelle]

As a tomato-growing layman here, I'll say that I do prune the suckers. Although I cannot say I've had much success at growing tomatoes, the plants stay well groomed and in decent foliage. I'll get it one day, sigh.

[bower]

There are many ways to prune a tomato, I think some work better for different varieties, and for different conditions. If you want to maximize your yield from suckers, you might do as I do, only pinch out suckers above eye level, and top the plant/ its branches when they get too tall. Leave a leaf above the last flower cluster at the top of each branch, to provide nutrients to that cluster of fruit.

I read a lot of conflicting advice and was very worried about topping my plants when I first tried it - - nonsense! as it turns out. I only minimize pruning and cutting in my situation because those wounds may be entry points for botrytis when the weather turns wet and cold.

So prune as you will, I do think it depends on the variety but overall, tomatoes are very tolerant of being pruned or trained in any way, and really love being physically supported as that feeling of support tells them it's okay to bear heavy fruit...

[lycomania]

I'd say, get in there, be bold, cut off leaves that are in the shade anyhow, and from there do what you think is a good idea. Tomato plants are pretty easy keepers. Nice job btw with your improvement over last season.

[emcd124]

Wading in as a relative novice, but isnt there a midpoint between all-suckering and no suckering? Whenever I have totally abandoned suckers I get a giant mess where I can barely see the fruits and the crowded leaves seem much more prone to foliage disease because there's barely any air circulation. But neither do I keep it pristine to only one main branch and no suckers. This isnt so much by design as by benign neglect...I just can never seem to catch all the suckers. But some middling amount...3? maybe 4 depending on the plant? seems to allow a good compromise between air circulation and productivity. For me at least.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by emcd124

Wading in as a relative novice, but isnt there a midpoint between all-suckering and no suckering? Whenever I have totally abandoned suckers I get a giant mess where I can barely see the fruits and the crowded leaves seem much more prone to foliage disease because there's barely any air circulation. But neither do I keep it pristine to only one main branch and no suckers. This isnt so much by design as by benign neglect...I just can never seem to catch all the suckers. But some middling amount...3? maybe 4 depending on the plant? seems to allow a good compromise between air circulation and productivity. For me at least.

What I've learned is that there are no rules, just different techniques, and everyone is free to choose whichever technique works for them and their growing environment.

[tnkrer]

Thanks all.

Bower - I am planning to top the plant around 1 Sept. (1 month before frost date)

Lycomania - I am psyched with the kind of growth I have this year and every day I am afraid that I will find the plants succumbing to something

emcd124 - I am hoping that the ideal number for me is 7-8 stems. With each stem giving 4-6 flower trusses, that would really mean a much better yield than single stemming it.

Livinonfaith - That's the sort of strategy I have used. Thanks

One of the problems that really pushed me to do pruning was that one of the growing branches had killed a fruit truss that had nice bloom and fruit set. The growing branch from another stem was pushing the truss against the cage and pinched the truss. I took off the truss since it was hanging lifelessly



So I went in fearlessly and started whacking. (well not literally). The problem is I was not gentle and killed a few greenies.



After that, however, I was more careful. I removed all the branches or pieces of branches that were pushing against fruit trusses. I really touched my face to the cage and looked inside the mess to see where the leaves seemed listless and where branches seemed to be intertwined or where I couldn't see anything but a whole bunch of leaves. The first were removed and the second two sets were pruned to create some openings. I also removed all the suckers that did not have any flowers from lower levels. I couldn't imagine my cage handling more stems and their long growing branches. (I still have 7-8 stems per plant).



This picture is after I was about 1/3rd done. I am afraid I will have to keep repeating this every couple of weeks.

[lycomania]

Good job! For me, it is really hard to "take away" from my plants, but I have found that when done with discretion, it is the best thing.

[livinonfaith]

Hey tnkrer! Good job! You inspired me, so I finally tackled my tomato wall yesterday!

It took over two hours to remove all of the diseased leaves and take out branches and suckers that hadn't set any tomatoes. That was on twenty overgrown indeterminates and six dwarfs. (the dwarf plants really didn't need much work.)

On the indeterminates, I'd say from 1/3 to 1/2 of the plant was removed, depending on how dense and diseased it was. But it looks so much better! And it has to be healthier for the plants.

I did have to make some hard decisions though. Several of the plants had branches that had escaped the cages and some of them had set more fruit than the branches inside the cages.

On one plant, I decided to grab another wire cage and thread three escaped branches up through that on the outside of the original cage. They had the majority of the fruit and I didn't want to lose it, but also didn't want it running all over the ground!

For the other escapees that already have set fruit or large amounts of flowers, I topped them off right above the fruit or flowers and will either let it stay on the ground until it ripens or secure it to the outside of the cage, depending on which works best.

The only concern I have is that cutting out so much might have opened the plants to disease at the wounded areas. I made a strong bleach solution and used it continuously on my hands and dipped the pruner in it after each cut. Hopefully, that killed anything that might have spread from plant to plant during the pruning, but it still worries me.

We'll just have to see what happens. Cross your fingers for me and I'll cross mine for you!

[cythaenopsis]

Since the topic of pruning suckers has come up, is there a general rule of thumb of how large to let them grow before pruning? Many of the videos I've watched demonstrate someone snipping them at a good hand length size. I'm just curious if pruning them "too early" might discourage flowering off of branches.