Black krim Strains

[NarnianGarden]

If there already is a thread about this and this issue has been discussed before, apologies and please guide me to that thread...
Have people had experiences with the different Black Krim strains? According to Tatiana's database, there are at least two strains that taste slightly different. The original supposedly has more smoky flavor, while the one that is more commonly available, has salty aroma.
Mine are probably the 'salty' less original kind, since saltiness is what the vendor states in their description.. I don't mind, as long as the fruit is purple ... of course I would hope for a good taste as well.

Does that mean that the 'salty' type is some sort of a cross or what's the story behind these versions?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

If there already is a thread about this and this issue has been discussed before, apologies and please guide me to that thread...
Have people had experiences with the different Black Krim strains? According to Tatiana's database, there are at least two strains that taste slightly different. The original supposedly has more smoky flavor, while the one that is more commonly available, has salty aroma.
Mine are probably the 'salty' less original kind, since saltiness is what the vendor states in their description.. I don't mind, as long as the fruit is purple ... of course I would hope for a good taste as well.

Does that mean that the 'salty' type is some sort of a cross or what's the story behind these versions?

I know only of Black Krim:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Black_Krim

And Noire de Crimmee:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Noire_De_Crimee

The latter is the same asBlack Krim written in French, and was sent to me in 1992 from France as so indicated and it colors up more darkly, for me, and tastes better to me, as grown by me where I live and is also shown in my heirloom tomato book,

Some folks say they can taste salty, smokey, whatever with this varieties and some other dark colored ones.

Many, like myself, have NEVER tasted anything salty or smokey so IMO those are not criteria to use for determing the authenticity of a variety.

Taste is personal and perceptual and even has a human genetic factor involoved and there are so many other variables that can determine taste aswell,

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

[NarnianGarden]

Carolyn: That's the page I was reading from. The idea of two strains comes from Jeff Fleming (MI FL J)...

"It took me several tries to get the authentic strain of this variety. Commercial seed that I purchased gave me crosses (typically with red fruit) or the salty strain. What I learned from these efforts is that in my opinion, commercial seed sources, including reputable companies, are no more reliable than home gardening seed savers at preventing the crossing of varieties. Commercial vendors, unless they specify otherwise, usually purchase seed in bulk through just a few wholesalers that supply many seed vendors, so if the supply is crossed, it can affect several retail sources. Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition noted 54 commercial sources in 2004."

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Carolyn: That's the page I was reading from. The idea of two strains comes from Jeff Fleming (MI FL J)...

"It took me several tries to get the authentic strain of this variety. Commercial seed that I purchased gave me crosses (typically with red fruit) or the salty strain. What I learned from these efforts is that in my opinion, commercial seed sources, including reputable companies, are no more reliable than home gardening seed savers at preventing the crossing of varieties. Commercial vendors, unless they specify otherwise, usually purchase seed in bulk through just a few wholesalers that supply many seed vendors, so if the supply is crossed, it can affect several retail sources. Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition noted 54 commercial sources in 2004."

I know Jeff Fleming very well and he says he got crossed seeds from a commercial vendor. it happens.

So his main message is about purchased seed.

He could well have written authentic as pertaining to both BK and NDC, but didn't. Both are authentic with just very minor differences between them depeinding on the season when grown, the weather, and on and on.

Carolyn

[NarnianGarden]

So whoever wrote "There is another strain of Black Krim that has a salty edge to the flavor and is tart, lacking the sweetness of the authentic strain but are still quite good."... wasn't correct in stating there are different straits - it's just different seasons and conditions?
It's just confusing for a newbie, who was happy to have found an old and original heirloom variety and then finds out it wasn't The Original ... ah well

[cythaenopsis]

^ It could very well be that how a tomato plant was watered and fertilized will dilute or concentrate the flavors. And also, as Carolyn said it can come down to taste buds. Some people may find the Black Krim prominently salty & smoky while others may find it having only the vaguest suggestion of it. I'm very curious myself... and hope to sink my teeth into one in about 5-7 more days!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

So whoever wrote "There is another strain of Black Krim that has a salty edge to the flavor and is tart, lacking the sweetness of the authentic strain but are still quite good."... wasn't correct in stating there are different straits - it's just different seasons and conditions?
It's just confusing for a newbie, who was happy to have found an old and original heirloom variety and then finds out it wasn't The Original ... ah well

What Jeff wrote was true for him.

And he was not correct in stating that were two strains. And there are several threads here that discuss what a strain is, b'c there are two interpretations.

Serdste Buivola means Heart of the Buffalo in Russian.

Cerce Bawole means Heart of the Buffalo in Polish.

Black Krim is the English translation from the Russian

Noire de Crimmee means Black Krim in French,

And so it goes.

Carolyn

[efisakov]

Well, since I was born in Ukraine Crimea, which sounds more like Krim (in Ukrainian) and not Crimea. The plant may be of the Crimea origin, which is famous for black tomatoes.
I hope this helps.

[NarnianGarden]

Yes, the origins were never in doubt (at least for me - I have seen some questions about it though), different names or languages do not bother me. Just was curious as to if he was true about the strains.

I'll have to find that thread on strains - what is the difference between 'a strain' and altogether different 'variety' geneologically.. Biology was never my strongest subject, but thanks to tomatoes, I am catching up a little bit

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Yes, the origins were never in doubt (at least for me - I have seen some questions about it though), different names or languages do not bother me. Just was curious as to if he was true about the strains.

I'll have to find that thread on strains - what is the difference between 'a strain' and altogether different 'variety' geneologically.. Biology was never my strongest subject, but thanks to tomatoes, I am catching up a little bit

If you can't find a thread titled something like what is a strain, I'll try to find it for you when I have time.

I'm not sure I'm following you, but a variety is a variety and that variety may or may not have a strain or strains.

Actually there are very very few varieties that have strains depending on which of the two interpretations of what a strain is as I mentiond above.

In a nutshell, a strain can be seen as being different in subtle ways from the original variety but can still be IDed as the original variety. Examples would be the Platfoot strain of Yellow Brandywine or the Estler strain of Mortgage Lifter.

Unfortunately there are many varieties that have a specific person's name next to it yet the variety is no different than the original variety. Yet they are referred to as strains.

Examples might include most of the Brandywine strains with specific names attached, as well as most of the Mortgage Lifter strains with names attached, although I just mentioned the Estler strain above and that one is a strain and is a bit different than the commonly known Radiator Charlie original one, or possibly original one b'c there's evidence that the Estler one WAS the original one.

If you check the Estler one at Tania's superb website I'm pretty sure she probably discussed that.

Carolyn

[tomatoguy]

I thought a strain was what you got in your lower back from weeding your garden too vigorously.

mater

[kevn357]

Originally Posted by tomatoguy

I thought a strain was what you got in your lower back from weeding your garden too vigorously.

mater

It depends on the variety of your back strain . It takes me several steps to walk upright after weeding and I'm only in the low 30's!

I'm growing two different supposed black krims and will report my results. So far, everything is wet and diseased... Almost 20 straight days of rain in a clay garden so the science is gone for this year. I have a black cherry that is 6 foot tall and a sungold right next to it at 3 foot. Way too many variables growing in a swamp...

[NarnianGarden]

That's interesting, kevn! Keep us posted...

Swamp sounds like an adventurous garden.. !

[ScottinAtlanta]

I got 15 pounds of the largest black krim I ever saw yesterday from a farmer from North Georgia named Nicholas. He said he has been saving seed for many years.

Every tomato was a good 18 ounces - and he had hundreds of pounds. I will save seed from the largest perfect oblate - I will call it the Nicholas Black Krim, since his first name is Nicholas.

[Mojave]

Whoops!