Choosing a paste tomato

[crmauch]

I'm planning a paste tomato breeding project for next year (looking at breeding a high carotene paste tomato).

I've generally grown Roma as a paste tomato and I used to grow something called Giant Italian Paste. But in my reading I've come across several recommendations for Opalka, but I've also heard good things about Speckled Roman. And of course there's the San Marzano or San Marzano Redorta.

What I'm looking for:
Great taste off the vine (I've often like paste tomatoes better than others (followed by beefsteaks, but I've never grown a heart (yet))).

Great sauce tomato (for both taste and ease of making it into sauce.

Excellent productivity (I'm torn here between Determinate and Indet. I generally like Indet for their season long productivity, but for a sauce tomato do you really want Det, so that you have the most tomatoes at one time? Comments welcome on this (However from my reading the genes I'm dealing with my limit me to Det (this is from memory - B (Beta-carotene) is closely linked to sp for self pruning).

I generally like the plum or longer shape (even though it may make increased susceptibility to BER).

Leaf? personally like PL, but don't really care if the tomato is a good performer.

Easy breeding would be good but I'm not to worried about seed production it may not be my mother plant (but if it produces good copious pollen, it would be good to know).

Love it to have disease resistance, but I think that's not going to be easy for me to breed for (too hard to detect/test for).

I want to my limit myself to one or two varieties of paste for though the crossing isn't too bad, the numbers get unmanageable in the F2 and F3 generations (IMO).

So let me hear your recommendations/thoughts. Also if there's a point or feature of a tomato I should be considering that I left out of my 'wish' list.

Chris

[habitat_gardener]

Heidi! I grew it one year and had a huge harvest of blocky plums. The plant got 3 times as wide as anything around it with very dense foliage before it started producing tomatoes. It's called a compact indeterminate.

I've grown a bunch more and have a LOT more I want to try, but Heidi was the standout for production.

For eating out of hand: Opalka and Sicilian (got the seedling locally from a longtime seed saver, pointed end) were the standouts.

On my list to try include (I looked them up on Tatiana's tomatobase to make sure they were described as paste tomatoes):
Tony's Italian -- plum/paste
Rinaldo -- plum/paste
Ernesto -- heart/paste
Wuhib -- plum/paste

[nancyruhl]

If you haven't tried hearts, please do. The flavor and meatiness cannot be beat. The pastes I grow year after year are Opalka, Prue, Andes, and Kenosha Paste. I also always grow Amish Paste, but most folks here consider it too juicy to really be a paste. Trying a couple of new ones this year. Carol Chykos Big Paste Black was meaty and tasty, but not all that black. I am also growing Black Pepper, but the first one got too ripe while I was out of town and did not taste good. The other new to my varieties I have not had a chance to sample yet.

[gssgarden]

Shannon's. Great taste, meaty, few seeds, and does well in Pa since that's where they are from!

Greg

[marc_groleau]

Viva Italia hybrid is super productive indetreminate. Makes great paste but off the vine taste is average.
Paste taste =10, OTV taste= 5.5 Production= 10 Repeatable year after year.

Russian Big Roma great large fruit, very productive indeterminate in my 2 year experience with it.
Paste taste = 10, OTV taste= 7, Production = 9

[crmauch]

Originally Posted by gssgarden

Shannon's. Great taste, meaty, few seeds, and does well in Pa since that's where they are from!

Greg,

Where would I get Shannon's from? I looked online and wasn't able to locate it.
It seems you are now located in NC, does it do well for you there?

Thanks,

Chris

[joseph]

There are many paths in the tomato genome leading to high carotene fruits. They are not all linked to the self pruning gene, and even if they are linked, the way to break linkages is to grow out sufficient numbers of plants that the odds become favorable. If I were breeding a paste tomato, I'd aim for something with a round fruit. They seem to have less problems with blossom end rot.

[Cole_Robbie]

I really liked Pompeii Roma. It's an f1 hybrid. I bought the seeds from Worms Way. I think they got them from Seeds of Change.

[gssgarden]

Chris, I know one or two companies carried them but haven't checked in a bit.

You've come to the right place!

I'm the original source for them so I have plenty! Just send me a PM with address and I'll get them to you!

Greg

[gssgarden]

Here are a couple taken this morning. Notice how the fruits have different shapes??

That's what I like about her.

Maybe I can get a couple pics of her sliced later.

Greg

[bbjm]

I'm growing Lurley's Paste. It is very very productive. The flavor is noticeably sweet, which my family likes. The fruit size varies quite a bit on the same plant. It has had some disease issues, but several of my plants have. We slice them like the others so I don't know how they taste cooked or anything like that. I'm growing Opalka as well. Tastes good and looks like it will be productive. Some of the fruit on this one get large too -- shaped like short, fat carrots. Both have been worth the space for me.

[gssgarden]

Just to follow up on a comment, I've never seen blossom rot on Shannon's and I've been growing it for a loooooong time!! lol

Greg

[gssgarden]

Chris, seeds are in the mail!!

If anyone else want her, just let me know!!

Greg

[camochef]

Chris,
As someone that has grown Roma's for years in the past and suffered with early season BER
I was pleased to discover Opalka's quite a few years ago. They were a great improvement over the problems associated with Roma's every season. Then we had a very wet year about 5 years ago and my Opalka's went from being my favorite garden snacker to being these large bloated mutants that didn't even look the least bit appetizing. Also had San Marzano growing that year and they suffered just as much as the Opalka's.
I had a new to me variety growing that year called Wessel's Purple Pride, (a cross between Sausage and Cherokee Purple), it did great and soon became my favorite garden snacker. Not very many of them made it to the saucepot for just that reason.
Over the years, I've reduced the size of my gardens from a high of 830 tomato plants down to 20 of my best favorites. Eliminating paste tomatoes, as well as cherry tomatoes, and orange, gold or yellow tomatoes, no more bi-colors or green when ripe.
I now grow Pink, Black, and an occasional red tomato, all slicers! All what I consider to be the best tasting tomatoes in over 50 years of growing tomatoes.
Besides tasting great on sandwiches like BLT's or a great burger they are great in salads and make wonderful tasting sauces.
For years my best tasting sauce had been a blend of Pink Brandywines, usually Cowlicks, and Cherokee Purples. We favored that canned sauce, year after year until I eliminated Cherokee Purple from my gardens in favor of some more consistent and better tasting dark tomatoes. Dana's Dusky Rose and Bear Creek became two of my favorite tasting dark tomatoes as well as Amazon Chocolate and Black-master. They replaced Cherokee purple in the sauce pot along with different pink Brandywines and Brandywine crosses as well as similar slicers like Barlow Jap, Earl's Faux, German Johnson-Benton Strain, and Purple Dog Creek and Terhune.
So far this season, my latest ever, I've only harvested 8 tomatoes, but I'm looking forward to making some great sauces later this month and into September. I know taste is a personal thing but I actually prefer the taste of sauces using many of my favorite slicers over the old sauces we used to make with different paste tomatoes as the main ingredient.
I wish you much luck in both your tomato growing and in your sauce making. A quick reminder: Slicers make great sandwiches, (like BLT's or on a burger or sub, they go great in salads...but they also make great tasting sauces.
Enjoy!
Camo

[crmauch]

Originally Posted by joseph

There are many paths in the tomato genome leading to high carotene fruits.

I know about B and OMG. There is also Del, but that gives delta-carotene, which I'm not sure is equivalent to beta-carotene (and I'm not sure can be converted to vitamin A in the body). I know that alpha-carotene is considered 'half' as affective as beta-carotne. What other genome paths are there?

Originally Posted by joseph

They are not all linked to the self pruning gene, and even if they are linked, the way to break linkages is to grow out sufficient numbers of plants that the odds become favorable.

Ahh, but I haven't figured out how closely linked they are. Do I need to grow 20? 100? 1000? to find a break in the linkage? (20 I might be able to do, numbers beyond that are out of my scope.

Originally Posted by joseph

If I were breeding a paste tomato, I'd aim for something with a round fruit. They seem to have less problems with blossom end rot.

I agree with you from a logic perspective. However, I eventually hope to offer what I develop to the public. I think there's a fairly strong association in people's mind with an oblong shape and a paste tomato. One of the hardest things is to change people's viewpoint on food, and I think it's going to be a hard enough 'sell' for a paste tomato that's going to be basically orange.