determinate tomatoes

[Errol]

I am planning on trying some determinate tomato growing next year. I'm wondering how close can determinate tomatoes be planted? I have always grown indeterminate and always will but just wanted to try the determinate. thanks for any advise/tips

[travis]

Errol, I am working on several determinate and semi-determinate lines from which I need to collect seeds for subsequent grow-outs. And I've found you can plant determinates pretty close together. But if you do, you have to expect and address certain concerns.

Lately, well over the past 3 years, I've set the determinates about 18 inches apart, both in sprawl rows, in Florida weave, and two vines per 36-inch by 3 foot tall wire cylinders with the wire cylinders butted nearly right up against each other in rows.

In each case, I've had to do some pruning of unnecessary foliage, and I've had to fertilize at planting, then once again with a high phosphate solution when they begin to flower, then once again with high nitrogen solution after full fruit set when the green tomatoes are mostly all marble size to 50% full size. Otherwise, I begin to see signs of nutrient deficiency.

I don't worry about the nitrogen causing too much foliage growth, or inhibiting subsequent flower production, because these are determinate varieties, after all. And they have pretty much terminated when they are carrying a full fruit load. They just need the nitrogen to maintain foliage health for effective photosynthesis and sugar production. And if you don't hit them with some more nitrogen, you will begin to see yellowing of the leaves.

Anyway, if you get excessive foliage growth that results in crowded conditions in cages or Florida weave ... get those pruners out! Just make sure you don't cut off any fruit producing shoots. This has worked for me in the past 3 seasons with determinates, and even most semi-determinates.

[Errol]

thanks Travis, you gave some very useful information that I can sure use. thanks again

[Sun City Linda]

I trialed several determinates in Earthboxes this year. When they were in their active growth they had so many leaves I had to water twice a day. I never realized they could grow into such strong bushes!

[spacetogrow]

If you're used to dealing with leggy indeterminate transplants by clipping off the lower branches and deeply burying the stem, be sure to catch yourself before you do that to a determinate.

I planted my first determinates that way without thinking and, in the process, screwed up much of their productivity for the whole season. Ouch.

[Errol]

spacetogrow, thanks for the heads up on that! Yes I bury my indeterminate maters deeppppp! ,,Linda they really had that much growth in leaves? wow

[b54red]

I still prune my determinate plants some but not like I do an indeterminate tomato. I still keep the lower leaves trimmed off early on to slow down the diseases that like to start low on the plant. I also will open them up a bit so they get better airflow. In my hot humid climate I would rather miss a few fruit bearing limbs than have the whole plant ruined by foliage diseases which actually get worse on most determinate plants due to their dense bushy foliage. The determinate plants I set out in March are still alive and they continue to produce fruit.

I just planted a couple of determinate tomatoes for the fall that I have never grown called Amelia. They recommend moderate to heavy pruning for best results. I set them about 3 feet apart because I have heard they get fairly large. I have grown Bella Rosa for a few years and it is a tasty hybrid that is determinate but it grows fairly wide but not very tall so it would do better with about a 3 ft spacing.

Bill

[Errol]

Bill thanks for the info, Bella Rosa is one that I will grow, already have the seed from tomato growers, also will have celebrity and the Bush Early girl VFFNT, any heads up on these other determinates? I will also still grow my old trusty Cherokee purple, German Pink, Yellow Giant indeterminate , thanks again, and glad to know the spacing on the Bella Rosa

[travis]

Amelia is an aggressive determinate, which is why the breeder advises pruning for larger and more conformant fruit. I don't remember the breeder advising "heavy" pruning though.

Celebrity is a semi-determinate, and you will need at least a 5-foot cage for that one. The canopy spread on a healthy Celebrity will run about 2.5 to 3 feet wide as well.

[Errol]

Travis, would it be advisable to give the celebrity 36 inch spacing? I don't use cages , I use the florida weave method even for my indeterminate , I would say that the florida weave would be satisfactory for the celebrity?

[travis]

Errol, I usually see Celebrity grown the best in 5-foot tall, aprox. 30-inch diameter, concrete reinforcement wire cylinders at the Master Gardeners display garden.

I do have a friend who grows Celebrity, Fabulous, and a couple of other determinate and semi-determinate vars. in Florida weave for his farm market. I've seen his 2013 plots as I drive by his farm, but I have not got out yet and walked the rows this year. Let me drive out there this week, and measure the spacing he uses and get back with you.

[Errol]

Travis, that would be great! thanks alot

[Redbaron]

I plant 2 feet apart for determinates with 4 feet between rows. No pruning.

[AKmark]

I have 3ft btween mine, they get really bushy, no pruning except lower leaves which can be removed when it's obvious the plant has enough leaves to do its thing.

[dpurdy]

Errol,
I totally agree with AKmark, that if you can space them 3 feet apart, you'll be better off. I grown many different determinate varieties and I stake mine. You can either stake or use a weave to hold them up. Determinantes do get bushy but you don't get any sunscald on your tomatoes. I usually prune the bottom most branches. That is to keep an area clear to observe drip emitters to make sure they are working properly.
Some of the varieties that I've grown are Bush Beefsteak, Heinz, Homestead, Rutgers, Marglobe, Celebrity, Legend, Bush Early Girl, Mountain Pride, and BHN hybrid varieties (ie. BHN 602, BHN 589, and BHN 640). Depending on what you're looking for in a tomato, Rutgers, and Marglobe are a decent producing and can be used for canning or salads. The Bush Early Girl tomatoes are somewhat smaller than what I like to grow. They probably would do well in a container. The Bush Beefsteak tomato is always in my garden. It produces a nice size tomato, usually 3/4 to 1 lb., and tastes great on a sandwich.
The main difference between determinants and indeterminates is that your harvest comes all at once, and lasts about 30 to 45 days. Whereas, indeterminates continue to produce fruit for a much longer period. When my determinate tomatoes are finished, I try to clean up the area by pulling the spent plants and prepare that area for beets, spinach, and other cold weather crops. I would suggest Rutgers and Bush Beefsteak to grow if you've never grown determinants before. They will provide you with both a decent salad and canning tomato, and a nice tasting beefsteak for sandwiches.
dpurdy